Honda talon stiff power steering

[lifeisgoodsteve]

At the dunes...

Before relocating the ECU, I would rate it a 4 overall. Barely adequate with the occasional complete loss of assist to the point it was dangerous at times.

After relocating the ECU, I would rate it a 9. Not perfect but damn close (and a LOT safer)!

Hi Paul,

Just curious if any more good testing or if in production mode for a plug and play kit?

Thx

s

 

[Admin]

 

[PaulF]

Hi Paul,

Just curious if any more good testing or if in production mode for a plug and play kit?

Thx

s

Yes,
Lots of testing. 10 day trip in Nevada, Arizona and Sand Hollow. Some very good and some not so good. Trail riding was great, Rock crawling at Sand Hollow was a disaster.

Steering assist is greatly improved but overheating is now a real problem, especially when doing technical maneuvers. The motor and ECU are too close to each other and they both generate heat causing limp mode (ECU reduces/completely kills assist to let it cool down) more easily.

Steering came and went on Wayne's World but then overheated badly and completely lost assist on Double Sammy at the worse possible place. Took me forever to finish the last part. Cooled down at the top while we watched a bunch of Jeeps struggling on the Chute and the assist returned just fine.

Mine is going worse than most, I have a completely closed firewall from hood down to the skids so there is little air flow. I removed my cowl and it improved it somewhat but still overheated on West Rim the next day.

So, back to the drawing board. I have notified my other testers about the issue and am currently working on "Plan B". Should have new test kits out by the end of the week for more testing and I am headed right back out to Moab for 10 days starting this Saturday so I will be able to thoroughly test "Plan B" in the conditions that are giving me the worst problems.

Stay tuned!

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

Yes,
Lots of testing. 10 day trip in Nevada, Arizona and Sand Hollow. Some very good and some not so good. Trail riding was great, Rock crawling at Sand Hollow was a disaster.

Steering assist is greatly improved but overheating is now a real problem, especially when doing technical maneuvers. The motor and ECU are too close to each other and they both generate heat causing limp mode (ECU reduces/completely kills assist to let it cool down) more easily.

Steering came and went on Wayne's World but then overheated badly and completely lost assist on Double Sammy at the worse possible place. Took me forever to finish the last part. Cooled down at the top while we watched a bunch of Jeeps struggling on the Chute and the assist returned just fine.

Mine is going worse than most, I have a completely closed firewall from hood down to the skids so there is little air flow. I removed my cowl and it improved it somewhat but still overheated on West Rim the next day.

So, back to the drawing board. I have notified my other testers about the issue and am currently working on "Plan B". Should have new test kits out by the end of the week for more testing and I am headed right back out to Moab for 10 days starting this Saturday so I will be able to thoroughly test "Plan B" in the conditions that are giving me the worst problems.

Stay tuned!

Bummer on the overheating but it's awesome you're doing thorough testing to hopefully get out the bugs now. Thanks!

 

[JT21TalonSE]

Question for all those following here. If you wanted/needed to do this to improve your steering, would you "hack" your own like I did or you rather buy and install a plug and play kit. Plug and play meaning...

1. Disconnect all battery negative cables.
2. Remove the rubber mat covering the ECU, the center console, and the cowl behind the hood.
3. Unplug and remove the ECU.
4. Disconnect the torque sensor and the motor leads.
5. Run a provided wire harness down the tunnel to extend the 21 pin control connector.
6. Attach the power feed leads via a provided circuit breaker to the factory winch cables with provided studs or to your existing winch relay if a winch is installed.
7. Mount ECU under cowl using supplied mount.
8. Plug in the torque sensor, motor and ECU to the new harness.
9. Reconnect battery(s) and test.
10. Put the cowl, center console and mat back.

Probably cost around $250-$300 and take the average person about 90 minutes.

I would buy one in a heart beat and I like the extra power from i4wd at all times count me in.

 

[JT21TalonSE]

Yes,
Lots of testing. 10 day trip in Nevada, Arizona and Sand Hollow. Some very good and some not so good. Trail riding was great, Rock crawling at Sand Hollow was a disaster.

Steering assist is greatly improved but overheating is now a real problem, especially when doing technical maneuvers. The motor and ECU are too close to each other and they both generate heat causing limp mode (ECU reduces/completely kills assist to let it cool down) more easily.

Steering came and went on Wayne's World but then overheated badly and completely lost assist on Double Sammy at the worse possible place. Took me forever to finish the last part. Cooled down at the top while we watched a bunch of Jeeps struggling on the Chute and the assist returned just fine.

Mine is going worse than most, I have a completely closed firewall from hood down to the skids so there is little air flow. I removed my cowl and it improved it somewhat but still overheated on West Rim the next day.

So, back to the drawing board. I have notified my other testers about the issue and am currently working on "Plan B". Should have new test kits out by the end of the week for more testing and I am headed right back out to Moab for 10 days starting this Saturday so I will be able to thoroughly test "Plan B" in the conditions that are giving me the worst problems.

Stay tuned!

 

[JT21TalonSE]

Any new updates? Last one I could see was from the end of march. Very interested in the upgrade for steering. Thanks again for all the research and test awesome job.

 

[Remington]

Any new updates? Last one I could see was from the end of march. Very interested in the upgrade for steering. Thanks again for all the research and test awesome job.

We all want to fix this! Patience my friend.

BTW Welcome, seen you just joined yesterday. Start an Intro thread and post some pics of your rig. Rule #4
#POIDH.

 

[Bigshow]

Now that I have some miles on my 30" Megabites (only measure 28 3/4 with 12# of air) my power steering gets weak. Seems ,like it works ok the middle half (quarter each way) then gets harder.

 

[JT21TalonSE]

We all want to fix this! Patience my friend.

BTW Welcome, seen you just joined yesterday. Start an Intro thread and post some pics of your rig. Rule #4
#POIDH.

Not sure how to do that?

 

[CID]

Not sure how to do that?

Welcome from the once great state of Colorado. The link in my sig will take you to some basic Talon information iffn you haven't seen it. It's also a sticky in the General Talon 1000 Discussion forum making it easier to find.

Go here, say Hi, new kid from Idee Ho.

Introduction and Welcome!

New Members, Please introduce yourself and if needed ask for help. WELCOME to HondaSxS.com

hondasxs.com

 

[Remington]

Not sure how to do that?

What @CID said or the Patience part 😂 Dont feel bad,I dont have patience either lol.
If u need help with the pics, just ask also. Will be glad to help

 

[PaulF]

Sorry its been a while since I touched on this thread but things got super busy and I needed more testing. Final results are as follows...

• Relocating the ECU didn't work so I abandoned that mod.
• Instead, I was able to source proper OEM plugs (not CRAP Chinese knockoffs) and wires to replace the inadequate 12 gauge wire with mostly 8 gauge and a few inches of 10 gauge at the motor end. This drops the voltage loss from an atrocious 12% to a more manageable 4%.
• This mod fixes the momentary loss of assist some experience while trying to turn quickly at speed in the dirt. Some (including @TerryH and I) almost wrecked their machines. If you experience this problem, you will know exactly what I am talking about.
• This mod does NOT fix any of the other assist "weaknesses" but it does improve them all. The stock 180/210 Watt Talon system is not strong enough for the size of the car.
• If you run an i4WD bypass, you are never utilizing "Full Power" mode when in bypassed (3WD) mode.
• You can "jump" the ECU to continuous full power (210 Watt) mode.
• IMPORTANT NOTE: More angled than stock front geometry can drastically reduce steering assist. If your front geometry is not stock, you should return it to stock and try again. If you are not on stock tires then for every "actual" inch in larger tire, you should sit 1/2" higher than stock. To determine your actual tire size, use a soft tape and measure the circumference of the tire while off the ground and divide by 3.14.

That all said, I have enough material to make about 20 kits (depends on how many are 4 seaters as they take more wire). $110 for the 2 seater and $120 for the 4 seater shipped to the lower 48. Non lower 48 will pay the difference in shipping as calculated by the USPS.

I only have the ability to take PayPal at this time. If you are interested, PM me your name, address and if you have a 2 or 4 seater.

First come, first served on the available materials. Everyone else will be put on a waiting list and I will order more parts accordingly in 25 unit increments.

 

[TerryH]

I'll echo the same thoughts on how the kit improves the performance of the power steering. Since changing over to Paul's harness which is a very simple install by the way, I have not experienced the momentary loss of all power steering. Steering has an overall lighter feel but is still somewhat heavy in some situations. The harness is well worth the cost and the little time it takes to install.

 

[PaulF]

As promised, here is the diagrams to force power assist boost...

 

[Josh97stang]

Once I have a chance to do some extensive crawling in March, I will post my full review in the TL thread.

Were you able to test out the TL for rock crawling?

 

[PaulF]

Were you able to test out the TL for rock crawling?

Unfortunately not really. I was having issue with my TL, it was not disengaging all the time so it made it difficult to gauge how everything worked.

One thing I can say for sure is that when it was in 4WD and the locker was locked, it worked very well BUT the steering was totally non existent on hard surfaces. I pulled it for the time being because it made the steering almost useless when it wouldn't disengage like it was supposed to.

Cora at TL worked closely with me to quickly resolve the disengagement issue but it took me until this past week to get the TL re-installed (been crazy busy with my normal work and honey-do's).

I am now on a 5 day trip and will test but there are not a lot of rock crawling opportunities where I am. I will most definitely post after some serious testing.

 

[906UP]

Unfortunately not really. I was having issue with my TL, it was not disengaging all the time so it made it difficult to gauge how everything worked.

One thing I can say for sure is that when it was in 4WD and the locker was locked, it worked very well BUT the steering was totally non existent on hard surfaces. I pulled it for the time being because it made the steering almost useless when it wouldn't disengage like it was supposed to.

Cora at TL worked closely with me to quickly resolve the disengagement issue but it took me until this past week to get the TL re-installed (been crazy busy with my normal work and honey-do's).

I am now on a 5 day trip and will test but there are not a lot of rock crawling opportunities where I am. I will most definitely post after some serious testing.

Curious about the disengagement issue, I too have had this problem and have spoke to Cora about it. At the time I was getting an occasional "pop" from the front end when turning sharp, I thought it was from my aluminum skids binding from the chassis flexing but after adjusting then removing the skids its still there.

 

[PaulF]

Curious about the disengagement issue, I too have had this problem and have spoke to Cora about it. At the time I was getting an occasional "pop" from the front end when turning sharp, I thought it was from my aluminum skids binding from the chassis flexing but after adjusting then removing the skids its still there.

The TL isn't perfect (neither are any of the auto lockers out there). They are mechanical devices dependent on certain mechanical conditions to lock and unlock and will occasionally not do the right thing if certain conditions happen. For instance, if you reverse turning one way then forward turning the other in 2WD, it can (not always) cause it to engage when it shouldn't and it may "pop" out of engagement. This is all normal and just part of having an auto locker. Basically, the conditions were perfect to "trick" the locker into thinking it needed to lock when it shouldn't. As long as it only occasionally engages then pops out when in 2WD and doesn't stay engaged when it is in 2WD, then it is working as expected.

Mine on the other hand was engaging when going straight down the road in 2WD and would disengage when turning a corner (like a side street or driveway). It would basically lock up the steering because the front end was locked on pavement and then it would suddenly release (sometimes with a pretty loud pop). This behavior is NOT normal.

This subsequent install seem to not have that problem so I am out testing it. Not sure what was wrong (or what I did wrong) with the initial install. I'm sure mine will "pop" on occasion (already did with the reverse/forward/turn scenario mentioned above), it is just part of owning an auto locker. As long as it doesn't engage on a straight road in 2WD and lock up my steering at 30MPH like it was, I am OK with the occasional "pop" here and there.

 

[906UP]

The TL isn't perfect (neither are any of the auto lockers out there). They are mechanical devices dependent on certain mechanical conditions to lock and unlock and will occasionally not do the right thing if certain conditions happen. For instance, if you reverse turning one way then forward turning the other in 2WD, it can (not always) cause it to engage when it shouldn't and it may "pop" out of engagement. This is all normal and just part of having an auto locker.......

This is the exact scenario I was having...... 3 pt turn. It will "pop" with a loud bang. A little disconcerting but I think it's OK. Although I also have one in my P5 and don't have this issue, that's why I talked with Cora about it.

 

[Jon M]

Sorry its been a while since I touched on this thread but things got super busy and I needed more testing. Final results are as follows...

• Relocating the ECU didn't work so I abandoned that mod.
• Instead, I was able to source proper OEM plugs (not CRAP Chinese knockoffs) and wires to replace the inadequate 12 gauge wire with mostly 8 gauge and a few inches of 10 gauge at the motor end. This drops the voltage loss from an atrocious 12% to a more manageable 4%.
• This mod fixes the momentary loss of assist some experience while trying to turn quickly at speed in the dirt. Some (including @TerryH and I) almost wrecked their machines. If you experience this problem, you will know exactly what I am talking about.
• This mod does NOT fix any of the other assist "weaknesses" but it does improve them all. The stock 180/210 Watt Talon system is not strong enough for the size of the car.
• If you run an i4WD bypass, you are never utilizing "Full Power" mode when in bypassed (3WD) mode.
• You can "jump" the ECU to continuous full power (210 Watt) mode.
• IMPORTANT NOTE: More angled than stock front geometry can drastically reduce steering assist. If your front geometry is not stock, you should return it to stock and try again. If you are not on stock tires then for every "actual" inch in larger tire, you should sit 1/2" higher than stock. To determine your actual tire size, use a soft tape and measure the circumference of the tire while off the ground and divide by 3.14.

That all said, I have enough material to make about 20 kits (depends on how many are 4 seaters as they take more wire). $110 for the 2 seater and $120 for the 4 seater shipped to the lower 48. Non lower 48 will pay the difference in shipping as calculated by the USPS.

I only have the ability to take PayPal at this time. If you are interested, PM me your name, address and if you have a 2 or 4 seater.

First come, first served on the available materials. Everyone else will be put on a waiting list and I will order more parts accordingly in 25 unit increments.

Paul,

So to summarize, The PS ECU relocation MOD and all associated wiring made a huge difference and brought the PS from a 4 to a 9. But the relocation made the ECU and motor overheat frequently. Therefore you moved the PS ECU back to the stock location? Now the wiring fix makes the PS more like a 7(ish)?

Im curious, was heat generation the only reason why the PS ECU relocation MOD abandoned? If so, in your opinion, would an additional cooling fan with direct convection on the PS ECU and/or motor solve or help with the overheating problem?

Jonathon