Multi P500 and P700: Opinions Needed

[educ8tedguess]

TL;DR version:

• Turned P500 on it's side, hit a tree with ROPS and it's totaled.
• I need a new Honda SxS but I want more stability with similar capability.
• The SxS's main purpose is taking one of my kids with me. If one of them doesn't come with me, I ride my Honda Rubicon.
• I would appreciate any feedback/opinions on whether a P500 with wheel spacers or a Pioneer 700 would be a better option. Safety/stability is now my #1 priority after seeing how easy it was to roll the P500 in it's 50 inch state.
• For those that have experience on the P500 AND 700, will the 700 be as capable as the 500 in terms of ability to climb, crawl, and trail ride? I don't need my machine to be 50 inches for where I ride with my kids and at this point, and actually I will not have a SxS that is only 50 inches.

Full Version

Well, I managed to wreck my beloved Pioneer 500 known to my kids as "Little Devil" I was riding up in the UP of Michigan, took a turn to tight, hit a rock on the right side and a rut on the left and over she went. As I was tipping, I hit a tree with the roll cage and that was it. The ROPS saved me (Thanks Honda) but that is the end of the road for this one. While I realize there are limits to any machine, I am nervous about how easy it was for the machine to go over. Yes, I realize there is a "driver error" element but I was not romping on it through the woods or driving unsafe etc... This could easily happen again no matter how safe I'm being.

With that said, I'm really thinking about what I want to do for my next SxS and this is where I really need your help. My next ride needs to be more stable. The only reason I own a SxS is so I can get my kids out with me so safety is my #1 priority in choosing a new machine. What are your thoughts on the options below.

Option 1: Another P500
If I got another P500, I would need it to be more stable. I would want the same 26 inch tires, same walker evens suspension and ground clearance but It would need to have a firmer stance. Would wheel spacers do that for me? Larger offset wheels? Other options?

Option 2: Pioneer 700 or 700-4
About 9 or 10 inches wider so I'm assuming it is quite a bit more stable.

Question: I love the pioneer 500 for what it is. Simple and plenty powerful for what I like to do. Climbing, crawling, and trail riding comfortably with one of my kids. If the 500 couldn't do it, I have no business trying it in the first place (that's what my rubicon is for) Would the Pioneer 700 be similar in terms of felt power? In other words, would I have enough low end grunt to climb rocky sections like I did with the p500?


I already had the pioneer 1000-5 DX so I know I don't want to go down that road again. As fun as it was, it was just too much machine for what I'm looking for. I don't want speed or Dual Clutch etc...

I appreciate any feedback you can offer in helping me make this decision.

 

[trigger]

You altered the machine and had it set up wrong. Anyone with a P5 knows that if you go up you must go out or it will be tippier and down right dangerous, which you found out the hard way. A 500 is more than capable of being a stable trail machine but if you're not width restricted or adamant about getting through the tight stuff I'd recommend the 700.

 

[educ8tedguess]

You altered the machine and had it set up wrong. Anyone with a P5 knows that if you go up you must go out or it will be tippier and down right dangerous, which you found out the hard way. A 500 is more than capable of being a stable trail machine but if you're not width restricted or adamant about getting through the tight stuff I'd recommend the 700.

You are 100% correct your statement about being set up wrong. It didn't feel that tippy with the way it was set up for everything I had done with it up to that point. But it only takes once. Unfortunately it is only hindsight that is 20/20. Thank you for your feedback.

 

[Gator]

One of my favorite sayings is:

Hindsight is 50/50.

I wish I could offer some experience, but I have never sat in a 500. I have a 700. With my arched A-arms and tires I'm lifted about 6 inches. It is tippy. I know it and I drive accordingly. Your experience can happen to any of us. I'm sorry you tore yours up. But maybe you can cut it up and rebuild it into something new. (my gears are turning. I wanna get my hands on it)

 

[trigger]

Sorry Ed, didn't mean to come across as a dick but I've had this discussion many times on this forum about adding taller tires and not spreading the stance. Some swear that it's no tippier but simple physics says different. I saw the pics of your machine and that crash definitely did a number on it. Glad you're okay.

 

[educ8tedguess]

Sorry Ed, didn't mean to come across as a dick but I've had this discussion many times on this forum about adding taller tires and not spreading the stance. Some swear that it's no tippier but simple physics says different. I saw the pics of your machine and that crash definitely did a number on it. Glad you're okay.

No apologies needed and I didn't take it that way at all. Trust me, I beat myself up quite a bit for this one. And thanks, I'm glad I walked out alright too. Even though I try to be ahead of the game, I still have a tendency to learn things the hard way. I'm just glad it was only me riding it at the time.

 

[pFive]

The 700 and the 500 have the same power to weight ratio, but from what I have seen it lacks the low gearing on the 700 to do what you may be used too. I would really consider the 1k if budget allows.

 

[Remington]

Don’t let @trigger fool you he is a Dick! Lol. JK. He calles me a Dickhead all the time cuz I own 2 machines lol. Really...he’s a good guy, he’s just a straight shooter and passionate about what he does. Has something to do with being in the trades I think? Lol.
I’ve had my P1K5 for a few years now and love that Beastly thing. I also have a P5 and love it for its versatility and trailsI can’t ride with the P1K5. That said, after driving a P7 I didn’t seen the need for one. #1 it’s too wide for small trails and #2 if I was to go bigger, might as well go with the P1 for power, more bed room/load capacity etc. just My Opinion. I have no issues with people that own a P7 they serve there purpose and is no doubt a good machine. But if you like the versatility or the P5 and it saved your life, get another and just set it up better with shocks, spacers, wheels and tires and enjoy it. Hope this help you In whatever decision you make.

 

[Montecresto]

TL;DR version:

• Turned P500 on it's side, hit a tree with ROPS and it's totaled.
• I need a new Honda SxS but I want more stability with similar capability.
• The SxS's main purpose is taking one of my kids with me. If one of them doesn't come with me, I ride my Honda Rubicon.
• I would appreciate any feedback/opinions on whether a P500 with wheel spacers or a Pioneer 700 would be a better option. Safety/stability is now my #1 priority after seeing how easy it was to roll the P500 in it's 50 inch state.
• For those that have experience on the P500 AND 700, will the 700 be as capable as the 500 in terms of ability to climb, crawl, and trail ride? I don't need my machine to be 50 inches for where I ride with my kids and at this point, and actually I will not have a SxS that is only 50 inches.

Full Version

Well, I managed to wreck my beloved Pioneer 500 known to my kids as "Little Devil" I was riding up in the UP of Michigan, took a turn to tight, hit a rock on the right side and a rut on the left and over she went. As I was tipping, I hit a tree with the roll cage and that was it. The ROPS saved me (Thanks Honda) but that is the end of the road for this one. While I realize there are limits to any machine, I am nervous about how easy it was for the machine to go over. Yes, I realize there is a "driver error" element but I was not romping on it through the woods or driving unsafe etc... This could easily happen again no matter how safe I'm being.

With that said, I'm really thinking about what I want to do for my next SxS and this is where I really need your help. My next ride needs to be more stable. The only reason I own a SxS is so I can get my kids out with me so safety is my #1 priority in choosing a new machine. What are your thoughts on the options below.

Option 1: Another P500
If I got another P500, I would need it to be more stable. I would want the same 26 inch tires, same walker evens suspension and ground clearance but It would need to have a firmer stance. Would wheel spacers do that for me? Larger offset wheels? Other options?

Option 2: Pioneer 700 or 700-4
About 9 or 10 inches wider so I'm assuming it is quite a bit more stable.

Question: I love the pioneer 500 for what it is. Simple and plenty powerful for what I like to do. Climbing, crawling, and trail riding comfortably with one of my kids. If the 500 couldn't do it, I have no business trying it in the first place (that's what my rubicon is for) Would the Pioneer 700 be similar in terms of felt power? In other words, would I have enough low end grunt to climb rocky sections like I did with the p500?


I already had the pioneer 1000-5 DX so I know I don't want to go down that road again. As fun as it was, it was just too much machine for what I'm looking for. I don't want speed or Dual Clutch etc...

I appreciate any feedback you can offer in helping me make this decision.

Make ya a deal on a 700. Blue light special.

 

[Montecresto]

He calles me a Dickhead all the time cuz I own 2 machines lol. Really..

I own four, guess I better keep my distance from ole trigger.

 

[Montecresto]

You altered the machine and had it set up wrong.

Ouch.......nothing like fatherly admonishment.

 

[sthomp54]

Is this an insurance payout or are you assuming its totalled? From the pics looks like just the roll cage? I was thinking just put a new cage on, widen it, and get back on the trail?!

 

[Remington]

I own four, guess I better keep my distance from ole trigger.

Stay far far far away! Like in Monte Python and the holy grail “run away..run away...run away...” lol

 

[educ8tedguess]

Is this an insurance payout or are you assuming its totalled? From the pics looks like just the roll cage? I was thinking just put a new cage on, widen it, and get back on the trail?!

The insurance is considering it a total loss as of yesterday. I thought it was just ROPS as well. But when they tore it down a bit, the frame had bends in some of the weld points (Which they showed me) . At that point, it was frame replacement as well as ROPS so they made the decision to consider it a loss.
I thought that maybe the ROPS took the hit and the sacrificial parts would have allowed the frame to be protected but it was ultimately the welds that did it in.
But, I'm fine (Except for my pride) and I learned a little more about physics .

 

[educ8tedguess]

Don’t let @trigger fool you he is a Dick! Lol. JK. He calles me a Dickhead all the time cuz I own 2 machines lol. Really...he’s a good guy, he’s just a straight shooter and passionate about what he does. Has something to do with being in the trades I think? Lol.
I’ve had my P1K5 for a few years now and love that Beastly thing. I also have a P5 and love it for its versatility tga I can’t do with the P1K5. That said, after driving a P7 I didn’t seen the need for one. #1 it’s too wide for small trails and #2 if I was to go bigger, might as well go with the P1 for power, more bed room/load capacity etc. just My Opinion. I have no issues with people that own a P7 they serve there purpose and is no doubt a good machine. But if you like the versatility or the P5 and it saved your life, get another and just set it up better with shocks, spacers, wheels and tires and enjoy it. Hope this help you I whatever decision you make.

Thanks for your feedback on the machines. I had a 1000-5 and liked it but it really isn't the right machine for me. The power is nice but I'm simple and don't like the dual clutch setup. I know they fixed the issues but it is more machine than I want/need. I'm going to take a hard look at the 700. My local dealer has a 17 base model and an 18 deluxe (Both 700-4) so I am heading there after work to look.

 

[educ8tedguess]

Ouch.......nothing like fatherly admonishment.

Eh, I had the same conversation with myself shortly after I crashed. And then my dad had similar comments for me.

I actually took a screenshot of @trigger 's response and sent it to my dad. His response.... "Ha.... good for ya. There's still a few of us out there who will tell it like it is. You didn't call your mom and cry did ya? "

So feel free to call me out any time, as you can see, I'm plenty used to it.

 

[Mudwing]

Go 700!

 

[Montecresto]

Eh, I had the same conversation with myself shortly after I crashed. And then my dad had similar comments for me.

I actually took a screenshot of @trigger 's response and sent it to my dad. His response.... "Ha.... good for ya. There's still a few of us out there who will tell it like it is. You didn't call your mom and cry did ya? "

So feel free to call me out any time, as you can see, I'm plenty used to it.

Lol, good to see you’ve got broad shoulders. Trigger knows a thing or two cause he’s seen a thing or two.

 

[educ8tedguess]

Lol, good to see you’ve got broad shoulders. Trigger knows a thing or two cause he’s seen a thing or two.

Thanks.... now I'm going to have the "Farmer's Insurance" jingle stuck in my head for the next week.
This forum really is great.... I'm starting to wonder if I'm buying another Honda just to be a part of it...

 

[RydeAK]

Spacers made a huge difference. I had 26's on for awhile and it felt tippy kinda like the stock setup until i put on the 1.5" spacers. Totally worth it. Never driven a 700 but I hear it works just fine without low range.