P700 pioneer torque converter

[Riverbend700]

I've got my 2014 pioneer 700-4 tore apart trouble shooting why it revs but wont move most of the time. Now granted it has around 2500 hours and 13,000 hard farm miles. Anyone know if the one way bearing on the torque converter is suppose to move backwards a little or none at all. Honda manual says its not suppose to move but dealer says it can if moved slow. Anyone messed with it? The #1 clutch looks pretty toasted which could be part of it but really wondering about the torque converter. thanks

 

[Admin]

 

[Russ989]

I've got my 2014 pioneer 700-4 tore apart trouble shooting why it revs but wont move most of the time. Now granted it has around 2500 hours and 13,000 hard farm miles. Anyone know if the one way bearing on the torque converter is suppose to move backwards a little or none at all. Honda manual says its not suppose to move but dealer says it can if moved slow. Anyone messed with it? The #1 clutch looks pretty toasted which could be part of it but really wondering about the torque converter. thanks

I’d say your #1 clutch is most if not all of your problem, if it can engage with friction it’s going to rev and sit still which are the symptoms you described.

 

[DG Rider]

I've got my 2014 pioneer 700-4 tore apart trouble shooting why it revs but wont move most of the time. Now granted it has around 2500 hours and 13,000 hard farm miles. Anyone know if the one way bearing on the torque converter is suppose to move backwards a little or none at all. Honda manual says its not suppose to move but dealer says it can if moved slow. Anyone messed with it? The #1 clutch looks pretty toasted which could be part of it but really wondering about the torque converter. thanks

I have no experience with these, but One way bearings usually have to "wedge" themselves when turning backwards to lock, so a tiny bit of movement would be normal. And I can see it not locking completely when turning very slowly...BUT, if in doubt, replace it.

 

[Riverbend700]

Ok thanks for the replies sorry I’m just now getting back as I’m just now getting back to working on it. I’ve got the cases split now and believe I figured some things out. In my original post I didn’t mention that I’d checked the oil pressure and it was around 60-70 pounds at idle. Well I then noticed after I already tore into it that your supposed to check it at 5000 rpm so that info I wasn’t sure about. When I pulled the cases apart the screen off the oil pump was plugged completely with clutch material. How this thing was getting any oil pressure I’d don’t know. Also I didn’t mention that it was smoking a lot and using oil so I’ve got the cylinder and head at the machine shop getting it bored and the head checked. Also one can lobe is shot possibly from lack of lube. It hasn’t been terribly long ago that we installed a new cam because of the same problem so wether the screen has been plugged for awhile who knows. Amazing enough the rod and crank look good. So I’m going to rebuild all the clutches, few bearings, a cam, top end, bunch of orings and gaskets and throw it back together. I love my Honda’s but not sure on the design on this engine. It has lasted through some hard miles though and hopefully after some refresh several more. I’m going to put the torque converter back in and see how long it will last. Also the oil pump specs ok it just has a little scoring on the cases so I’m going to roll with it.

 

[allgm1]

View attachment 163170[/QUOTE]
theres your sign lol

 

[HondaTech]

My old DSM always told us when replacing the camshaft for a worn lobe on the 700 series enignes to split the cases and inspect/clean everything because the metal has to go somehere.

Your situation with the clogged screen is just like the Big Red i did a few months back. It would sporadically loose foward motion and feel like the clutch was slipping. I also found the screen clogged all the way up with gunk.

I didn't know any of the history of the unit, so im not sure what if anything had been done to it before I got into it.

While your in there inpsect the torque converter fiber seal and oil pump. If the converter seal is bad you'll have to replace the converter assembly, since Honda doesn't sell the seal separate. Also check the pressure relief valve to see if it's stuck.

 

[Riverbend700]

My old DSM always told us when replacing the camshaft for a worn lobe on the 700 series enignes to split the cases and inspect/clean everything because the metal has to go somehere.

Your situation with the clogged screen is just like the Big Red i did a few months back. It would sporadically loose foward motion and feel like the clutch was slipping. I also found the screen clogged all the way up with gunk.

I didn't know any of the history of the unit, so im not sure what if anything had been done to it before I got into it.

While your in there inpsect the torque converter fiber seal and oil pump. If the converter seal is bad you'll have to replace the converter assembly, since Honda doesn't sell the seal separate. Also check the pressure relief valve to see if it's stuck.

Have you had experience with the fiber seal or the converter going bad? Also the pump has some scoring on the aluminum housing but everything else measures and looks ok. Wonder how much that will effect it? The pressure relief wasn’t stuck but don’t know about the life of the internal spring.

 

[HondaTech]

I've replaced one with a big chunk taken out of it, I suspect that someone had been in there and had nicked it putting it back together.

As long as theres no big knicks or gouges into he rotors, or outer rings then the pump should be fine.

 

[Riverbend700]

I've replaced one with a big chunk taken out of it, I suspect that someone had been in there and had nicked it putting it back together.

As long as theres no big knicks or gouges into he rotors, or outer rings then the pump should be fine.

Ok here’s the seal it has metal pieces imbedded in it and is it suppose to have a slit where it can come apart?

 

[HondaTech]

The slit is normal, it's the same material as the P1K mainshaft seals.

I'd hate to say it, but with the metal embedded in it there I wouldn't reuse it. That could've been what led to your issues.

 

[Riverbend700]

Ok here’s the seal it has metal pieces imbedded in it and is it suppose to have a slit where it can come apart?

View attachment 163477 View attachment 163478

The slit is normal, it's the same material as the P1K mainshaft seals.

I'd hate to say it, but with the metal embedded in it there I wouldn't reuse it. That could've been what led to your issues.

Unfortunately I’m not impressed with the condition of the seal or that bearing. Just a bummer you can’t service these parts individually.

 

[NTCPrezJB]

Unfortunately I’m not impressed with the condition of the seal or that bearing. Just a bummer you can’t service these parts individually.

Just because Honda won’t give you a part number doesn’t mean you can’t get a replacement. We rebuilt a Mitsubishi manual transmission by taking a stack of bearings to Timken. Of course they do have bearing plant local to Canton so there is that.

 

[HondaTech]

Just because Honda won’t give you a part number doesn’t mean you can’t get a replacement. We rebuilt a Mitsubishi manual transmission by taking a stack of bearings to Timken. Of course they do have bearing plant local to Canton so there is that.

I researched to no end to find that fiber seal, and have come up with nothing. I'm sure someone out there can get them, but I haven't found it yet.

 

[Riverbend700]

I researched to no end to find that fiber seal, and have come up with nothing. I'm sure someone out there can get them, but I haven't found it yet.

I researched to no end to find that fiber seal, and have come up with nothing. I'm sure someone out there can get them, but I haven't found it yet.

It would definitely be nice to fine one. So to go back to the first part of my post is it normal for the one way bearing in the converter to turn both ways in your experiences?