Questionable Honda warranty repair

[Jerryg]

Reps have to take everything into consideration.

How old is it? How is it used? Was it maintained properly? Is the dealer diagnosing it properly.

In this case, I have never heard of a full warranty on a used machine unless it was a dealer warranty.

Honda does not usually warranty anything that is not a manufacturing defect. An approved Honda warranty claim is admitting fault. How is it a warranty when the bolts were stripped out? It sounds to me like the rep is going above and beyond to help the customer with some good-will. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Admin]

 

[Fischer]

Don’t worry Lloyd-you don’t sound like a prick you have a valid opinion. SXSs were thin pickings during the shutdown we struggled to find a base model.

Honda’s DEALER policy is unlike any other we have ever seen. I once had a Duramax lose power and start running rough. Took it to Chevy dealer they diagnosed CP3 fuel pump. Gave me an estimate 5k to fix. I gave the go ahead, and when they finished and called me for pick up I arrived to find the truck running the same. Service rep told me it was “drivable” and the mechanic suspected I needed lifters and the lifters were likely broken before the pump went. I kept the keys the rep handed me (he did NOT like that) and refused to pay. I left the truck locked and told him no one is to touch it. Went home and contacted the factory. That was a Friday. On Monday the factory rep met me at the dealer and they argued I brought it in with busted lifters. The rep TOLD (not asked) them they had one opportunity to try the lifters, but I would not be charged a dime over the original estimate. He also stated he thought they misdiagnosed an injector failure and he was confident the lifters would change nothing. They tried the lifters. It was not the issue. The mechanic was fired, the dealer replaced all 8 injectors and fixed the problem. The rep then had them also GIVE me a new turbo charger since that was all that was left to have a totally new fueling system and I paid the original estimate. These are repairs NOT under warranty-but exemplifies the quality assurance GM gives you when using their dealer network

The point of that story is other factories have authority over and stand behind Authorized Dealers. As a former charter fisherman I have had similar positive experiences with Yamaha. They have had my back numerous times with dealer issues.

Honda does not. If I took my SxS back to McKibbens and they broke something else it is ON ME to resolve it with them. Honda is HANDS OFF. This is exactly what the factory CSR Manager told me yesterday. That is not much reassurance as the entire reason we use overpriced dealers is assurance of quality service. This policy alone is what will steer us from buying Honda in the future.

Your right. Honda isn't backing you. I tell you what after reading this I'm going Yamaha!!!

 

[redhooker]

Reps have to take everything into consideration.

How old is it? How is it used? Was it maintained properly? Is the dealer diagnosing it properly.

In this case, I have never heard of a full warranty on a used machine unless it was a dealer warranty.

Honda does not usually warranty anything that is not a manufacturing defect. An approved Honda warranty claim is admitting fault. How is it a warranty when the bolts were stripped out? It sounds to me like the rep is going above and beyond to help the customer with some good-will. Just my 2 cents.

This unit was sold to us as a never-titled Factory Demo. A Demonstration unit be it a car, RV, motorbike, or ORV is legally considered NEW and has complete factory warranty beginning on the date purchased. We paid 16k for this base model so believe it or not they likely profited more than a non-demo new unit.

 

[Jerryg]

This unit was sold to us as a never-titled Factory Demo. A Demonstration unit be it a car, RV, motorbike, or ORV is legally considered NEW and has complete factory warranty beginning on the date purchased. We paid 16k for this base model so believe it or not they likely profited more than a non-demo new unit.

I get what you are saying but to my knowledge, it's used or it's not under the Honda warranty.

The dealer might give you the full warranty but that's on him or her.

Is there a provision declared in the warranty statement from Honda that covers demos? I have never seen that.

 

[Smitty335]

I get what you are saying but to my knowledge, it's used or it's not under the Honda warranty.

The dealer might give you the full warranty but that's on him or her.

Is there a provision declared in the warranty statement from Honda that covers demos? I have never seen that.

All the units on the lot are Demo units, when I went to look at a P1, the sales man has me get into a stone cold unit and just hammers it, that's why I picked up one not on the lot and needed assembly.

 

[Jerryg]

All the units on the lot are Demo units, when I went to look at a P1, the sales man has me get into a stone cold unit and just hammers it, that's why I picked up one not on the lot and needed assembly.

That is uncool. I guess dealers need to have a demo unit, but you can't say it's new after it's been ridden more than Seattle Slew.

 

[redhooker]

That is uncool. I guess dealers need to have a demo unit, but you can't say it's new after it's been ridden more than Seattle Slew.

Demos have been around a long time. They are legally considered new and warranty is the same as any non-demo new unit. Most new cars have under 100 miles but a dealer might use one as a loaner and put a few thousand miles on one, and then sell it as a “demo”. It’s fully disclosed to the buyer and demos typically come with a discount but have all the warranty of a new car. They never say it’s new-it just comes with all the protections of a new bike. When purchased it is also supposed to be quality assured-similar to a “certified used” as in completely gone over and thoroughly inspected.

The discount is variable and ours was about $1500 off the full price. We were unaware the unit had been in the possession of another dealer and repossessed/auctioned. The selling dealer (McKibbons) was not honest about that.

I can assure you we have a full factory Honda warranty until April 2021.

 

[Jerryg]

Demos have been around a long time. They are legally considered new and warranty is the same as any non-demo new unit. Most new cars have under 100 miles but a dealer might use one as a loaner and put a few thousand miles on one, and then sell it as a “demo”. It’s fully disclosed to the buyer and demos typically come with a discount but have all the warranty of a new car. They never say it’s new-it just comes with all the protections of a new bike. When purchased it is also supposed to be quality assured-similar to a “certified used” as in completely gone over and thoroughly inspected.

The discount is variable and ours was about $1500 off the full price. We were unaware the unit had been in the possession of another dealer and repossessed/auctioned. The selling dealer (McKibbons) was not honest about that.

I can assure you we have a full factory Honda warranty until April 2021.

I was just poking around on the Honda website looking for warranty info. I can't believe how vague the warranty policy for powersports is. With the General Purpose Engine division, it's so much more cut and dry. I couldn't even find any documentation stating the length and conditions of the warranty. The owners manuals says you have a warranty but does not tell you how long it is. I know the dealers want you to buy extended coverage but I assume Honda will give you at least one year.

Is there any one who has documentation from Honda as to the details of warranty coverage? Because, the fine print explains exactly your coverage is without human error.

 

[Ericthered]

That is why there are lawyers. Talk to one, about $150 hr X 1 hour. Take that info and take the dealer to small claims court. Here in Nevada it costs $35. File all your paperwork and exactly what you were told and who else was with you when it was said. At the very least...get your money back and let them have the lemon. I have limited legal background, but I have won 3 lawsuits by documenting why I said they screwed me. Set up your complaint with "exhibit A thru Z". The judges seem to really like it if they can walk in your shoes. Good luck.

 

[Mudder]

As far as posting bad reviews, try google maps and yelp. Strictly the facts. Southern Honda Powersports in Chattanooga TN has been known for shady practices. I lucked out at Honda of Chattanooga and bought mine as they assembled it.

 

[Rottiedog]

I’ve been a mechanical engineer for 30+ years and have used and seen Heli-coils used many times in multiple applications. Here’s my thoughts: If you can get them to replace the case in its entirety then absolutely it is the very best option. However if it becomes a giant hassle you do not want to stress out about, the repair if done properly should last a lifetime. When heli-coils are installed properly fasteners can be installed, torqued down and removed as many times ass if it were the original casting. IMHO, the steel heli-coils may in fact even be stronger than the aluminum threads as originall there. Bottom line: steel is better than aluminum for this application. Best wishes and I hope you’re happy regardless of what the outcome.

 

[Jerryg]

I’ve been a mechanical engineer for 30+ years and have used and seen Heli-coils used many times in multiple applications. Here’s my thoughts: If you can get them to replace the case in its entirety then absolutely it is the very best option. However if it becomes a giant hassle you do not want to stress out about, the repair if done properly should last a lifetime. When heli-coils are installed properly fasteners can be installed, torqued down and removed as many times ass if it were the original casting. IMHO, the steel heli-coils may in fact even be stronger than the aluminum threads as originall there. Bottom line: steel is better than aluminum for this application. Best wishes and I hope you’re happy regardless of what the outcome.

I have been using Heli Coils for about 30 years and have never had a problem.

I would argue a Heli coil is better than having the original threads.

 

[HondaTech]

I was just poking around on the Honda website looking for warranty info. I can't believe how vague the warranty policy for powersports is. With the General Purpose Engine division, it's so much more cut and dry. I couldn't even find any documentation stating the length and conditions of the warranty. The owners manuals says you have a warranty but does not tell you how long it is. I know the dealers want you to buy extended coverage but I assume Honda will give you at least one year.

Is there any one who has documentation from Honda as to the details of warranty coverage? Because, the fine print explains exactly your coverage is without human error.

Dealers are suppose to provide a warranty booklet with every new machine as well as having them available for customers to view.

 

[Jerryg]

Dealers are suppose to provide a warranty booklet with every new machine as well as having them available for customers to view.

Why not just post it on their website for everyone to see?

Or send me one via email or snail mail?

I am not driving an hour to look at a booklet when dealers have no machines to show.

Inexcusable, I can look or download one for $150 engine but not for a $20,000 machine.

 

[Adam490]

I mean, I think the easiest thing to do here is just not buy one if this is the hill you've chosen to die on. Have you looked at the information for a Polaris, Can-Am, Kawasaki, Yamaha, etc powersports warranty?

 

[Jerryg]

I mean, I think the easiest thing to do here is just not buy one if this is the hill you've chosen to die on. Have you looked at the information for a Polaris, Can-Am, Kawasaki, Yamaha, etc powersports warranty?

I have worked in the Honda Power Equipment and General Purpose Engine business for over 30 years.

I am just astounded by the lack of transparency when it comes to the Pioneer warranty.

I am a certified Honda Engine trainer and tech for the last 10 years of my career, I don't really think I will let anyone else work on my stuff regardless of the warranty.

I just can't imagine the monotony that ensues.

 

[redhooker]

Well got the machine back today-heli coils done. Thanks to St Augustine Powersports.

Even got a call from Honda Customer Service-they wanted to know why I did not get a resolution from McKibbens. I told her the owner (Mr Mikkibens) REFUSED to call me and discuss the problem. The sales lady that lied to us on the origin of the machine (Melanie?) has been promoted to store manager. She told me no one gets to speak to the owner and he would not call me back. She offered for me to DROP THE MACHINE OFF AND THEY WOULD TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND DECIDE WHAT IF ANYTHING THEY WOULD DO. I said no thanks-if your non-certified mechanics break anything else it will be my problem not Honda’s. I had no intention of leaving our SxS in their possession for another few weeks. I told her to relay a message to Mr Mikibben-he can call me and discuss this man to man or he can be a coward and hide from me forever. She said she would relay the message as well as my “nasty” tone.

Even the CSR from Honda acknowledged the issue with poor dealers leaving the customer holding the bag. It is obviously not a great situation and Honda dealers have zero accountability to the factory in dealings with customers.

The real lesson we learned here is when it comes to Honda dealer service-make DANG sure you have a certified tech working on your stuff and make DANG sure you are dealing with a reputable dealer. Honda Powersports has zero protection for you when it comes to dealer eff-ups.

 

[Lloydtheredneck]

now its time for some throttle therapy and then you will remember why you bought a honda in the first place!

 

[gtistiffler]

I am with you on all of this. I had to email Honda to get a copy of the warranty info. They sent me a pdf of it. My new 2020 500 is going on three weeks in the shop. I’m never buying a Honda again either. Not bc of the products but bc of the lack of customer service and transparency.

 

[Smitty335]

Dealers are suppose to provide a warranty booklet with every new machine as well as having them available for customers to view.

They do!