Questionable Honda warranty repair

[redhooker]

We have a 2016 Honda pioneer 1000. Although it is a four-year-old unit, it was purchased as a brand new demo this year with full factory warranty.

The unit has been having a slow oil leak since we purchased it. A couple attempts were made to repair it, and then we took it to a new dealer attempting to find the source of the problem. At the new dealer they discovered two of the bolts that hold the transmission case onto the engine or stripped out inside the case. The lack of bolts is what’s causing the oil leak.

I am not sure if these bolts were stripped out by the selling dealer, as we requested he do the clutch upgrade that was offered for free from Honda for that model year. That does not mean he is surely at fault, I suppose they could’ve been stripped at some point during it’s four year life.

so now we are dealing with the new dealer, and the factory rep. The factory rep would like to have the dealer install Healy coil‘s in the stripped out holes to accept new hardware. The dealership has never attempted this type of repair before, and when I asked him if I were paying for the repair what he would suggest, he states they only suggest OEM repairs which would mean a new case.

does anyone else find it strange that Honda would suggest using an aftermarket patch to repair an item under factory warranty? Should we accept this solution? I’ve spoken to several mechanics that do work on automobiles, not side-by-side’s, and all of them have said while it may work it would definitely not be as good as the factory threads. I have been told they can slip out over time. That time would likely take it out of warranty.

.

 

[Admin]

 

[Ohio4x4]

We have a 2016 Honda pioneer 1000. Although it is a four-year-old unit, it was purchased as a brand new demo this year with full factory warranty.

The unit has been having a slow oil leak since we purchased it. A couple attempts were made to repair it, and then we took it to a new dealer attempting to find the source of the problem. At the new dealer they discovered two of the bolts that hold the transmission case onto the engine or stripped out inside the case. The lack of bolts is what’s causing the oil leak.

I am not sure if these bolts were stripped out by the selling dealer, as we requested he do the clutch upgrade that was offered for free from Honda for that model year. That does not mean he is surely at fault, I suppose they could’ve been stripped at some point during it’s four year life.

so now we are dealing with the new dealer, and the factory rep. The factory rep would like to have the dealer install Healy coil‘s in the stripped out holes to accept new hardware. The dealership has never attempted this type of repair before, and when I asked him if I were paying for the repair what he would suggest, he states they only suggest OEM repairs which would mean a new case.

does anyone else find it strange that Honda would suggest using an aftermarket patch to repair an item under factory warranty? Should we accept this solution? I’ve spoken to several mechanics that do work on automobiles, not side-by-side’s, and all of them have said while it may work it would definitely not be as good as the factory threads. I have been told they can slip out over time. That time would likely take it out of warranty.

.

If I damaged my case in this manner I would consider healy coils only if I was unable to tap the holes to the next size bolt. As for a dealer making warranty repairs like that I say hell no. It sounds like the dealer knows better when stating he suggest only oe repairs.

 

[redhooker]

Tapping the next size I guess is not an option. I’m sure they would likely also have to drill out the other half and where these bolts are the case “swells“ in thin aluminum bubbles It is not a meaty part of the metal for sure

 

[bigshoe]

I would not except that as a repair. I have used helicoils, but as a repair under warranty hell no. he stripped them doing the upgrade to the clutches. bolts just don't randomly pull threads make them repair it properly. Just my opinion tho.

 

[Fyathyrio]

Helicoils require basically tapping to the next size in order to install the insert, and are stronger than the original threads due to installing steel threads into the aluminum case. Get the coils, get the repair done quickly, and go enjoy your machine.

 

[redhooker]

Thanks for the replies!
Yes the heli coils are steel, the main issue (aside from the fact it is not an OEM repair) is the aluminum is quite thin (less than 3/16”) where these are going.I want some assurance thes won’t cause the aluminum to crack or split. These holes are not in a beefy part of the case. I am attaching a pic of a similar part that shows the “swells” for the bolts.

 

[redhooker]

I also get it. Replacing the case is expensive. They do not want to spend that kind of money to fix a small problem on a big part. But we just bought this thing and it has leaked oil from the start and I don’t believe we deserve less than a proper repair.

I called 3 dealers anonymously today. One in Georgia and two in Texas. I told all three I stripped the holes and my machine is out of warranty. Guess what they said? All three told me I need a new case.

 

[mj1angier]

Either a new part or $$ back on a "not as sold" machine. Will the repair work? More than likely, but that is not what you paid for when you got the machine.

 

[redhooker]

OK, I learned a lot today. First of all, I learned that Honda has the right under the factory warranty to use whatever aftermarket parts they want.

I also learned that the selling dealer, McKibben Powersports in Winter Haven, was aware of the leak when they purchased the unit at auction from Honda. I also learned that Honda has no authority over their authorized dealers to remedy any mistakes. So if a dealer improperly performs any repair that dealer is the only place you can remedy the issue. Honda corporate will not get involved or fix any item said dealer harms or breaks.

So as far as Honda is concerned, we should be happy they will even consider tapping Heli coils in the transmission case-and if they fail down the road that’s the cost of doing business with a poor authorized dealer.

Of course I re-contacted McKibben Powersports, and was informed by the manager (same lady that sold it to us) that Mr McKibben WILL NOT call me back and if I like I can drop the unit back off at their dealer and the will “take a look at it”. This is the same dealership that did the faulty clutch repair and where it went twice for the oil leak both times they said “there is no oil leak”. Total refusal to speak to me by the owner seems completely unacceptable.

I don’t think I’m gonna drive it three hours back there and risk them breaking something else now that I know I will be left responsible to fix anything else they screw up according to Honda.

Looks like we have to accept Honda’s charity fix and live with our poor choice in product. This will likely be the last Honda we ever purchase.

 

[mj1angier]

I would start posting what you just wrote on every site that you can review them on, Facebook, Twitter...both dealer and Honda. Also would check with state about lemon law and unfair business practices.

We had a problem with an LG refrigerator and that’s what I had to do to get them to replace the compressor. I would comment on every Facebook post LG would make with tell of 3 months without a repair. Toke time but got it fix. Just got a class action notification about them being sued for same problem


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[redhooker]

I’m not really angry at Honda, I was just unaware how on our own we were when we purchase their products. Their policy is pretty clear if you actually read the warranty (our bad for not reading the fine print). So while I am not mad at them, I am definitely better informed and their warranty policy does not fit my criteria when it comes to value for my hard earned dollars.

The dealer, on the other hand, there’s an absolute Charlie foxtrot. If you purchase a Honda you better be dang sure that the dealer is reputable and they will stand behind what they sell. It stinks that you’re pretty much on your own as far as the factory is concerned when it comes to getting a good dealer.

I should also point out that we have been having a great experience at the Honda dealer in Saint Augustine. They seem to have a first class operation going on compared to what we were dealing with down south.

I don’t deny Honda builds a fine machine. When it comes to four wheelers, it’s pretty well known around here that can am you buy for power, Honda you buy for reliability. We were going to purchase two Rubicon‘s for our boys for Christmas, but it looks like I am switching brands

 

[Jerryg]

Heli Coils are your best way out. Once that casing is torqued down, it will never come loose. It's not like something that constantly has to come off. But, I don't like that the dealer/mechanic has not used them before. Tell them to do a couple practice runs on an old casing or what ever.

 

[Jerryg]

Having been on the service rep side, it's not an easy position to be in.

Some dealers are just terrible and you can't tell anyone that.

I had an end user that was not being treated well and I suggested he try another dealer if he wasn't happy with the service.

He tells the dealer i said that, and low and behold, pissed off dealer.

But trust me, I know Honda wants you to be happy. Do what the dealer rep suggests.

 

[Adam490]

OK, I learned a lot today. First of all, I learned that Honda has the right under the factory warranty to use whatever aftermarket parts they want.

I also learned that the selling dealer, McKibben Powersports in Winter Haven, was aware of the leak when they purchased the unit at auction from Honda. I also learned that Honda has no authority over their authorized dealers to remedy any mistakes. So if a dealer improperly performs any repair that dealer is the only place you can remedy the issue. Honda corporate will not get involved or fix any item said dealer harms or breaks.

So as far as Honda is concerned, we should be happy they will even consider tapping Heli coils in the transmission case-and if they fail down the road that’s the cost of doing business with a poor authorized dealer.

Of course I re-contacted McKibben Powersports, and was informed by the manager (same lady that sold it to us) that Mr McKibben WILL NOT call me back and if I like I can drop the unit back off at their dealer and the will “take a look at it”. This is the same dealership that did the faulty clutch repair and where it went twice for the oil leak both times they said “there is no oil leak”. Total refusal to speak to me by the owner seems completely unacceptable.

I don’t think I’m gonna drive it three hours back there and risk them breaking something else now that I know I will be left responsible to fix anything else they screw up according to Honda.

Looks like we have to accept Honda’s charity fix and live with our poor choice in product. This will likely be the last Honda we ever purchase.

Pretty sure they run the Honda Pioneer 1000 Riders Facebook group, so I wouldn't expect any complaints there to get very far without them deleting the comments. Best of luck with this, the Pioneer really is a great machine and I'm sorry to hear that you are getting the run-around with a lousy dealer experience.

 

[bigshoe]

Its not the sxs fault someone didn't know what they where doing and stripped bolts. The dealer is liable for there techs sh** work. I've personally fired techs a previous job not for screwing up mistakes happen. but for hiding it.

 

[Lloydtheredneck]

gonna sound like a real prick here. i would never buy a demo unit. you know its been ridden hard and not taken care of, like break in periods and such. im surprised they even offer warranty on it. that might be why your having so much trouble because if i was selling demo machines at auction it would be with no warranty. now if the dealer offers it on there time i guess. as far as helicoils go it wont hurt to put them in. have some one experienced do it and lock tite it. over time it may gall in there and when you go to take it apart in a few years (hopefully much longer) then they will snap off and you can do it all over again !
dont give up on honda. i wont buy anyhting else. dont care what it costs. i have never had to open one up and i beat the sh$$ out of my toys. on occasion.

 

[redhooker]

Don’t worry Lloyd-you don’t sound like a prick you have a valid opinion. SXSs were thin pickings during the shutdown we struggled to find a base model.

Honda’s DEALER policy is unlike any other we have ever seen. I once had a Duramax lose power and start running rough. Took it to Chevy dealer they diagnosed CP3 fuel pump. Gave me an estimate 5k to fix. I gave the go ahead, and when they finished and called me for pick up I arrived to find the truck running the same. Service rep told me it was “drivable” and the mechanic suspected I needed lifters and the lifters were likely broken before the pump went. I kept the keys the rep handed me (he did NOT like that) and refused to pay. I left the truck locked and told him no one is to touch it. Went home and contacted the factory. That was a Friday. On Monday the factory rep met me at the dealer and they argued I brought it in with busted lifters. The rep TOLD (not asked) them they had one opportunity to try the lifters, but I would not be charged a dime over the original estimate. He also stated he thought they misdiagnosed an injector failure and he was confident the lifters would change nothing. They tried the lifters. It was not the issue. The mechanic was fired, the dealer replaced all 8 injectors and fixed the problem. The rep then had them also GIVE me a new turbo charger since that was all that was left to have a totally new fueling system and I paid the original estimate. These are repairs NOT under warranty-but exemplifies the quality assurance GM gives you when using their dealer network

The point of that story is other factories have authority over and stand behind Authorized Dealers. As a former charter fisherman I have had similar positive experiences with Yamaha. They have had my back numerous times with dealer issues.

Honda does not. If I took my SxS back to McKibbens and they broke something else it is ON ME to resolve it with them. Honda is HANDS OFF. This is exactly what the factory CSR Manager told me yesterday. That is not much reassurance as the entire reason we use overpriced dealers is assurance of quality service. This policy alone is what will steer us from buying Honda in the future.

 

[NTCPrezJB]

Don’t worry Lloyd-you don’t sound like a prick you have a valid opinion. SXSs were thin pickings during the shutdown we struggled to find a base model.

Honda’s DEALER policy is unlike any other we have ever seen. I once had a Duramax lose power and start running rough. Took it to Chevy dealer they diagnosed CP3 fuel pump. Gave me an estimate 5k to fix. I gave the go ahead, and when they finished and called me for pick up I arrived to find the truck running the same. Service rep told me it was “drivable” and the mechanic suspected I needed lifters and the lifters were likely broken before the pump went. I kept the keys the rep handed me (he did NOT like that) and refused to pay. I left the truck locked and told him no one is to touch it. Went home and contacted the factory. That was a Friday. On Monday the factory rep met me at the dealer and they argued I brought it in with busted lifters. The rep TOLD (not asked) them they had one opportunity to try the lifters, but I would not be charged a dime over the original estimate. He also stated he thought they misdiagnosed an injector failure and he was confident the lifters would change nothing. They tried the lifters. It was not the issue. The mechanic was fired, the dealer replaced all 8 injectors and fixed the problem. The rep then had them also GIVE me a new turbo charger since that was all that was left to have a totally new fueling system and I paid the original estimate. These are repairs NOT under warranty-but exemplifies the quality assurance GM gives you when using their dealer network

The point of that story is other factories have authority over and stand behind Authorized Dealers. As a former charter fisherman I have had similar positive experiences with Yamaha. They have had my back numerous times with dealer issues.

Honda does not. If I took my SxS back to McKibbens and they broke something else it is ON ME to resolve it with them. Honda is HANDS OFF. This is exactly what the factory CSR Manager told me yesterday. That is not much reassurance as the entire reason we use overpriced dealers is assurance of quality service. This policy alone is what will steer us from buying Honda in the future.

I wouldn’t blame you for that decision either.

 

[redhooker]

gonna sound like a real prick here. i would never buy a demo unit. you know its been ridden hard and not taken care of, like break in periods and such. im surprised they even offer warranty on it. that might be why your having so much trouble because if i was selling demo machines at auction it would be with no warranty. now if the dealer offers it on there time i guess. as far as helicoils go it wont hurt to put them in. have some one experienced do it and lock tite it. over time it may gall in there and when you go to take it apart in a few years (hopefully much longer) then they will snap off and you can do it all over again !
dont give up on honda. i wont buy anyhting else. dont care what it costs. i have never had to open one up and i beat the sh$$ out of my toys. on occasion.

Sorry I just re-read this and also wanted to clarify. We did NOT purchase through any type of auction. This was a listed showroom unit at the dealer (McKibbons). We were TOLD by the sales lady (also the manager) it was a factory demo used by Honda Corporate.

I found out from factory customer service yesterday that NONE of what McKibbons said was true- it was a unit originally purchased by another dealer that went bankrupt. Honda got the unit back through the bankruptcy. Honda has closed auctions for their dealers which is where most demos come from. Sounds like this is a common occurrence. McKibbons purchased this bike from one of those auctions. She had the sales paperwork from said auction and while she could not disclose everything she did say it was leaking oil when McKibbons bought it.

 

[bigshoe]

All sxs warranties are hard to deal with period. ive been rounds with all them some reps would of just replaced the case some will do the crap there pulling on u now. When Ford launched the new 6.7 diesel they made them with 2 style bearings for the first year. one style did nothing but blow up and Ford knew it was a problem. I had a friend that did def delete right after they bought it and when it blew up with 3000 miles Ford would not cover it they had to buy a $18.000 engine even know Ford new it was a problem. A coworker with 20.000 miles had def delete egr delete went to different dealer and nobody said anything they even put his egr delete back on the new engine its all in who u take it to and who the rep is.