Rear Propeller Shaft and Pinion Joint Connection GONE BAD

[WhitefieldJim]

Looking for advice. I recently discovered that the connection between the Propeller Shaft and the Rear Pinion Joint on my 2017 Pioneer 700 are no longer holding, and the shaft now spins within the pinion joint. It began as a clunking sound that still propelled the utv in 2 wheel drive, but has deteriorated to the point of no torque at all to the back wheels. At first I had thought it was the rear final drive gear box, but after jacking up the rear end and putting it in drive (2WD only) and also holding the brake on, the propeller shaft continues to spin within the pinion joint. At first the shaft made a clunking sound as it rotated within the joint with the brake on, but now it spins without much resistance. My belief is that the geared male end of the propeller shaft and internally geared female receiving pinion joint have stripped or sheered off teeth. I've purchased a shop manual to dig into this further, but am curious if anyone else has encountered this kind of problem? Also, has anyone ever removed the pinion joint from final drive? The shop manual references a special tool to help hold the joint for removal, but I'm hopeful someone may have tip to share so I can avoid the $150-200 for the tool. I'd appreciate any advice anyone has to share. Thank you!!

 

[Admin]

 

[Mudwing]

I know just the man for the job. @HondaTech can you help this guy out?

 

[JTW]

@joeymt33 @snuffnwhisky

 

[joeymt33]

I’ve had the rear diff out and apart on the P1000 but I’ve never personally heard of a problem like yours.

To set a new gear set in the rear diff will be difficult. I found that out just like you are now. Search for a salvaged or new rear diff to make life easier. Hopefully it’s just the splined joint before the differential.

Keep us updated

 

[joeymt33]

One other question.....you said the rear drive shaft spins when holding the brake?....the rear brake is before the pinion. The brake should stop movement of the drive shaft and pinion.

So my question is, are you sure the brake is holding? Are you sure the driveshaft is turning?

 

[JTW]

I just reread this.. are you sure the prop shaft isn’t just broken? There is a cone that will hold the shaft in place when it shears behind the splines on the 1000, is it the same setup on the 700? If you grab the shaft does it have any lateral movement? I would think the shaft would shear well before the splines stripped. Pull the diff and you’ll know.

 

[HondaTech]

To answer the original question, the holder tool is only needed because Honda has to assume you don't have an impact gun to remove the nut and you need something to hold the shaft while torquing it down when reassembling.

But the shaft shouldn't be moving behind the brake if holding the brake.

I have seen 1 700 that somehow popped the joint out in front of the brake. I have no idea how it came out without moving the diff back, but we popped it back in and never saw it again.

 

[wrhii]

FWIW, we have had several go out like you're describing. The boot would get damaged, sand and water get in between the pinion coupler and the shaft. The pinion coupler I believe is a softer metal then the shaft itself and would wear the splines allowing a nasty sounding slip. I don't think I remember ever replacing a shaft because when a new coupler was fit on, all seemed factory tight again. Never bought a tool because, as Honda Tech said, I used a impact.

 

[WhitefieldJim]

Hey Guys, first off, thanks for all the excellent thoughts and comments. Very much appreciated!

Update: Over the weekend I was able to get everything torn down to where I was able to remove the rear final drive gear case, and confirmed that the inner gears of the Pinion Joint are stripped bad. The propeller shaft gears appear to be ok, but I'm not sure yet if they should be sharply peaked, or if the slightly rounded gear peaks that I see on the propeller shaft are still within tolerance. If anyone have an inspection tip for the prop shaft gears, please share.

Also as info, I was able to remove the nut that hold the pinion joint onto the pinion gear by holding the pinion joint with an extra large pipe wrench on the outer mounting ring that mounts the brake disc while using a 7/8" socket on the nut. The pipe wrench had just enough bite without any scarring of the pinion joint. I figured it wouldn't hurt to use the pipe wrench since the old one was smoked anyway, but I think I'll probably try it in reverse to install the new one once I get my new pinion joint through the mail. I'd already ordered a new prop shaft as well assuming it was likely damaged too, but now I'm not sure if I can reuse the old one and send back the new, or if I should probably just install the new one and keep the old as a spare?

Thanks again to All for sharing your experience.

 

[wrhii]

Hey Guys, first off, thanks for all the excellent thoughts and comments. Very much appreciated!

Update: Over the weekend I was able to get everything torn down to where I was able to remove the rear final drive gear case, and confirmed that the inner gears of the Pinion Joint are stripped bad. The propeller shaft gears appear to be ok, but I'm not sure yet if they should be sharply peaked, or if the slightly rounded gear peaks that I see on the propeller shaft are still within tolerance. If anyone have an inspection tip for the prop shaft gears, please share.

Also as info, I was able to remove the nut that hold the pinion joint onto the pinion gear by holding the pinion joint with an extra large pipe wrench on the outer mounting ring that mounts the brake disc while using a 7/8" socket on the nut. The pipe wrench had just enough bite without any scarring of the pinion joint. I figured it wouldn't hurt to use the pipe wrench since the old one was smoked anyway, but I think I'll probably try it in reverse to install the new one once I get my new pinion joint through the mail. I'd already ordered a new prop shaft as well assuming it was likely damaged too, but now I'm not sure if I can reuse the old one and send back the new, or if I should probably just install the new one and keep the old as a spare?

Thanks again to All for sharing your experience.

Thanks for the update 👍