Rear winch

[Tflynn]

Hey guys I am wanting to install a rear winch. I already have the winch so my only hold up now is finding time and thinking of a design I like. Has anyone else done this and would you post some pictures please?

 

[Admin]

 

[bobbyhill]

It all depends on what you want to use it for but I would use some thing similar to this. that way I could remove it and store it in the bed at times depending on the trail. http://www.amazon.com/s/?tag=sxsweb24-20

 

[allgm1]

Make sure you take some pictures when you make one Tflynn, I saw someone with a p2 that used the holes where the rear roll cage would have been, but that doesn't work if you have a p4 as I do. I looked (briefly) at jamming a warn 2500 up in there mounted to the frame, it can be done i've just been to busy riding instead. It will be done by winter though as I like to have a rear winch to pulll me back out of snow bankings, my foreman has been set up with one front and rear for years

 

[ohanacreek]

Make sure you take some pictures when you make one Tflynn, I saw someone with a p2 that used the holes where the rear roll cage would have been, but that doesn't work if you have a p4 as I do. I looked (briefly) at jamming a warn 2500 up in there mounted to the frame, it can be done i've just been to busy riding instead. It will be done by winter though as I like to have a rear winch to pulll me back out of snow bankings, my foreman has been set up with one front and rear for years

I'd be careful using the ROPS mounts they are designed for a different purpose and not a 2500lb+ pull.

 

[Code54]

I'd be careful using the ROPS mounts they are designed for a different purpose and not a 2500lb+ pull.

I agree - don't really want to mess with the cage as it is not designed to be used as a pulling point. I would mount to the rear frame members and the hitch for the most strength.

 

[allgm1]

I'd be careful using the ROPS mounts they are designed for a different purpose and not a 2500lb+ pull.

I agree, same thing with the reciever hitch, not designed for it.

 

[bobbyhill]

I Respectfully disagree the receiver is designed to tow. Honda specs say 1500lbs towing and curb weight is 1261lbs. plus the fact that you are not going to be winching dead weight the whole way, maybe just to break it loose (if needed) and then you are winching a 1261lbs object on wheels “assisted” which means that you are not even winching 1261lbs at this point in fact it is less. Then you also have the option to start up the SXS and assist it further by engine power. Now with that being said I could be wrong if your game plan to hang the SXS upside down out of a tree to let it dry after you wash it.

 

[ohanacreek]

I Respectfully disagree the receiver is designed to tow. Honda specs say 1500lbs towing and curb weight is 1261lbs. plus the fact that you are not going to be winching dead weight the whole way, maybe just to break it loose (if needed) and then you are winching a 1261lbs object on wheels “assisted” which means that you are not even winching 1261lbs at this point in fact it is less. Then you also have the option to start up the SXS and assist it further by engine power. Now with that being said I could be wrong if your game plan to hang the SXS upside down out of a tree to let it dry after you wash it.

agree with you, the receiver is designed to tow....MAYBE not the 5000-10000lbs you could theoretically exert on it with a heavy duty winch and snatch block but definitely designed to tow.

The ROPS has some strength it is designed to carry some accessories i.e.: the honda cab system and stand up to a mild roll over, it is a "Roll Over Protection System". You probably can hang some stuff from i and Honda recommends you tie the 700-4 down by it.

I am no Honda engineer but winching to/from it is most likely a bad idea.

 

[joeymt33]

One thing to consider when purchasing a winch is the weight of the vehicle. It is recommended that you get a winch that has a capacity double the weight of the vehicle. With that said, to extract a pioneer from the mud even on level ground can require a great amount of force due to the mud piling in front of the vehicle. Also, extractions could include pulling a vehicle up hill, not vertical but maybe 45 degrees.

Then you have to factor in that the Honda hitch is not designed for much load vertically or latterly. It's 1500lb rating is a straight pull. Think of those guys that have tried to pull a disc for breaking ground on a deer food plot. There have been guys that ripped the hitch from their pioneer with something that weighs maybe a couple hundred pounds.

I would be cautious when building a rear winch mount. It could be done right, I would just put a lot of thought into it before you risk injury. When a winch line is tight, that's a dangerous time. Believe me, I've lost a windshield due to a anchor point failing on the stuck vehicle.

Joe

 

[ohanacreek]

One thing to consider when purchasing a winch is the weight of the vehicle. It is recommended that you get a winch that has a capacity double the weight of the vehicle. With that said, to extract a pioneer from the mud even on level ground can require a great amount of force due to the mud piling in front of the vehicle. Also, extractions could include pulling a vehicle up hill, not vertical but maybe 45 degrees.

Then you have to factor in that the Honda hitch is not designed for much load vertically or latterly. It's 1500lb rating is a straight pull. Think of those guys that have tried to pull a disc for breaking ground on a deer food plot. There have been guys that ripped the hitch from their pioneer with something that weighs maybe a couple hundred pounds.

I would be cautious when building a rear winch mount. It could be done right, I would just put a lot of thought into it before you risk injury. When a winch line is tight, that's a dangerous time. Believe me, I've lost a windshield due to a anchor point failing on the stuck vehicle.

Joe

Well said, there are some good ways to build a solid winch mount to go up inside the rear frame, guess I'll never get around to it as I am selling mine. Ill just have to tinker with the 1000, already have my Amazon wish list loaded and ready to go once I get the call from the dealer.

The energy stored in a steel cable is exactly the reason I got synthetic, MUCH SAFER as it just breaks and falls no recoil or whip effect.
ALMOST got the windshield it screwed up the hood (and nearly my boxers)BAD (stuck nose down in a ditch winching up)

In theory you could use a tree saver strap or two to wrap around STRONG frame components and attach the winch to a plate that could be shackled to the straps, but you risk squeezing the frame or pinching it together if you do it wrong.

 

[scott]

Someone had a nice setup that was at the windrock group ride not sure who. Sure someone on here knows. Don't know if it was a good setup but it looked nice.

 

[ohanacreek]

@spifyd had the rear winch.

 

[bobbyhill]

I had to break out my books again!

 

[bobbyhill]

I found this on google "The Friction coefficient between mud and steel varied from about 0.05 to 0.2 after 20 minutes, and eventually reached values of 0.1 to 0.3 after two hours." I am still looking for the Friction coefficient of between mud and tire.

 

[bobbyhill]

I found it! According to Jim Allen author of 4 wheeler's bible. Mud has a friction coefficient range of .2 - .4! Thanks Jim!!

 

[bobbyhill]

So if you are stuck in the mud flat ground this is what the math problem looks like.

.4x1261=504.4
Friction of mud= .4
curb wieght of 700-4= 1261lbs
load of Winch pull= 504.4

and 504.4 is a little over a 1/3 of your tow rating at 1500lbs

 

[joeymt33]

Last Saturday I was being pulled out of mud by a friend and it was very hard. The mud in front of me was rising up out of the water as my vehicle was being pulled out. So, the front of the pioneer was like a dozer blade. That dead weight in front of the vehicle is hard to account for and its not on wheels.

Then there is the vacuum effect. Have you ever had your boot stuck in the mud? Your boot is very light and easy to pick up but when your foot comes out of it and you have to pick it up by hand, you'll notice the suction causing you to strain to lift it.

I would like for someone to get a load scale for lifting slings and put it inline next time they have to pull someone out of the deep mud. Maybe I can find one around work somewhere.

This was last Saturday. Notice how the vehicle is on the mud and then it digs straight down. That thick peanut butter that it sank down into was like glue. It just would not let go.

Joe

 

[ohanacreek]

This took two 4500lb winches to get out pulling in tandem, yeah I could've doubled the line but it was a little too far for my short 38' line to reach when it's half length and there was another guy there so we just hooked them both up.

It wasn't a true 4500lb pull EACH because we weren't on the first layer probably at most 5000lb combined.

There's more to account for when winching than a 4500lb winch and a 1700lb vehicle (what mine weighs)

You have to account for the different pulls on each layer of the winch the more rope you have on the winch the higher the effective gear ratio(lower the pulling power), like Joey said the Alabama Clay is like peanut butter crossed with quicksand, it draws you in then doesn't want to let go because of its composition. So the mud is effectively stuck to the vehicle holding it in place so you have to break the mud apart or break the vehicle free( consider a 3'x3'x3' section of dry earth weighs @2700-3000lbs) so if you're pushing a portion of that do the math for dirt on dirt CoF. Then add that to the vehicle then account for accessories and a slight incline or a root or rock, or you may have to position the block in such a way that you are in effect lifting AND pulling the vehicle free to get it over the obstacle.

Twice the weight of a vehicle is a general guideline, I like triple the weight and a snatch block, just in case.

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

[Tflynn]

Thanks for all the input guys. I was leaning towards mounting to the ROPS mounting holes (I have a P2 so they are not being used) and then reinforcing the mount down below somewhere. For now I am only putting a 2000 lb. synthetic line winch in the rear (because thats what i happen to have on hand) and a 4000 lb. synthetic line up front. I know 2000 lb. is small but hey it's what I've got! So that should sort of protect me from screwing up my frame BUT I do intend to make the mount strong enough for a larger winch in case I want to upgrade later on. I have a rough design in my head of how I will do this but it will probably change as I start building. Ill definitely post pics when it's done.

Hey spifyd! I know you have one, I would love to see your design!

 

[bobbyhill]

lol OK well don't get me wrong I don't like math either! lmao