P1000 Shuddering

[JMRubicon]

Hi guys, this is my first post. I just took my P1K-5 home yesterday and I felt the shuddering while trying to cross a small mound of dirt on my property. This thing only has 5 miles on it. It was a steep incline but not more than 8ft high at the most. I will never run big tires and I avoid the mud the best I can, but I do a lot of slow technical riding. I am not going to like having to crawl over rocks and obstacles at 3 or 4 mph. So is this a characteristic of the DCT or is this a clutch issue that I need to talk to the dealer about? I have to admit this is pretty disappointing either way.

 

[Admin]

 

[Jediwrathchild]

Hi guys, this is my first post. I just took my P1K-5 home yesterday and I felt the shuddering while trying to cross a small mound of dirt on my property. This thing only has 5 miles on it. It was a steep incline but not more than 8ft high at the most. I will never run big tires and I avoid the mud the best I can, but I do a lot of slow technical riding. I am not going to like having to crawl over rocks and obstacles at 3 or 4 mph. So is this a characteristic of the DCT or is this a clutch issue that I need to talk to the dealer about? I have to admit this is pretty disappointing either way.

Were you in low or high? Make sure you read the manual. Great info on when to use low or high. Sounds like the riding you're gonna be doing will require low often to prevent damage to the clutches.

 

[JMRubicon]

I was in low. The shuddering would occur in manual and auto. The hill is just a small mound of dirt maybe 8ft tall. I try to take care of my machines, if this is a characteristic of the DCT I will do what I can to compensate with the way I drive it. If this isn't happening with everyone else's Pioneer then I want the dealer to fix it now before something else is damaged or warranty is gone.

 

[Hondasxs]

Welcome to the club JMRubicon,
Would you mind telling us which Pioneer 1000 you bought? 3 or 5 seat?

I have noticed this in my machine also. But, I have been able to control it with a little more gas. I too am still on the fence if it is an issue or a characteristic. I have a hill coming out of the creek I have been wanting to get a recording of.

 

[JMRubicon]

I have the 5 seat deluxe. I will make every effort to keep the shuddering from happening but it will be impossible at times. I mean if this is something that will eventually wear the clutch out then Honda needs to fix this period.

 

[joeymt33]

Hi guys, this is my first post. I just took my P1K-5 home yesterday and I felt the shuddering while trying to cross a small mound of dirt on my property. This thing only has 5 miles on it. It was a steep incline but not more than 8ft high at the most. I will never run big tires and I avoid the mud the best I can, but I do a lot of slow technical riding. I am not going to like having to crawl over rocks and obstacles at 3 or 4 mph. So is this a characteristic of the DCT or is this a clutch issue that I need to talk to the dealer about? I have to admit this is pretty disappointing either way.

There has been a lot of talk about this ever since the pioneer 1000 has came out. I did a short little video to let people know how my vehicle behaves on steep hills in very slow situations. I will say that the throttle is very sensitive and it takes some practice to be able to control it very smoothly.

 

[JMRubicon]

What happens at the end of your video is what was happening with mine, but it was occurring up to 3mph. Also the hill I was on was a lot steeper, but very short. So is every pioneer doing this?

 

[Ned]

As Joey had said, the throttle "tip-in" is really touchy on these machines but that gets better as the clutches break in. At least that is my experience. I have about 300 miles on mine and about 50 hours which will tell you how I use my machine. A lot of slow crawling hills, rocks creeks, pulling trailers of firewood, logs and other heavy stuff. I think it is wrong thinking to worry about whether the clutches will hold out. Mine is great. I experience almost no shuddering any more. My clutches seem to have broken in and are smoother than ever. I can say that until it warms up just a bit, as I first pull out, the clutch is a bit catchy but as I drive it all feels strong and smooth and reverse could be a bit lower geared but it's certainly manageable. I have pulled several heavy loads up hills without any problems repeatedly. I say brake it in and drive it correctly but you don't have to baby this thing, it will take you where you want to go. I think most of the clutch problems were in the build process not the engineering process and of those that were not, well there is always someone who can break anything..

 

[JMRubicon]

Thank you Ned, I did think this is something that could get better after it got a little more broken in. I just don't want to be scared I am degrading my clutch every time I crawl over a rock at less than 3mph.

 

[joeymt33]

Thank you Ned, I did think this is something that could get better after it got a little more broken in. I just don't want to be scared I am degrading my clutch every time I crawl over a rock at less than 3mph.

Just remember that this transmission is very similar to and automobile manual tranny. The only difference is the machine is working the clutch for you. You don't want to spend a lot of time in the engage/disengage zone which is that 3mph and under speed. I don't own a stick shift truck anymore but when I did, I tried to not ride the clutch unless it was necessary.

I hope this helps. Please keep us informed of your impressions of the machine.

 

[walexa07]

Thank you Ned, I did think this is something that could get better after it got a little more broken in. I just don't want to be scared I am degrading my clutch every time I crawl over a rock at less than 3mph.

I would probably try to break it in avoiding alot of scenarios where it could shudder. Then once broke in drive it when/where/how you want. Mine has shuddered a couple times when I really had it in a bind but I don't really know that anything has been hurt. I rarely put mine in low even when riding slow (15mph and less), because I prefer the rpms to stay low so the machine stays quiet - basically lugging it some. I do use low anytime I think 4wd lock is about to be required or if there is something I know I will be going pretty slow for an extended time (couple minutes). Otherwise it's all high.

Hope this helps.

Waylan

 

[JMRubicon]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the information. Hopefully this will go away after an easy break in. I will do as much as I can to keep it out of the shudder zone.

 

[PioneerPete]

The thing that helped me most when learning my p1k was the realization that it is a manual tranny. as others have mentioned, below 3mph is when the machine starts to disengage the clutch. it is best to avoid those speeds below 3mph until your clutches are more broken in and you are a little more in tune with the machine. I did notice on the last couple of rides, that I was able to do some really slow technical rock crawling, but that's after 300 miles of clutch break in and building the muscle memory to control the throttle.
it also seem like its best not to baby the machine. oil pressure is important so keep the rpms up and give er hell!

 

[ghost]

Mine occasionally gets into a shudder. Only happened a few times but It seems to happen in situations and speeds where it had no problem before.
I just back off then try again - usually with more throttle.
Kinda irritating though - last time I had to correct with more throttle half my cargo got left on the trail.

 

[hondabob]

If your driving at 1 to 2 mph most of the time the clutch will overheat and fail. For those speeds the Pioneer 700 will work great as it has a torque converter. Another option is a belt drive model without a wet clutch like a Polaris or Can-Am. The Pioneer 500 is also geared super low and it may be ok at 2 mph. The Pioneer 1000 needs to be driven at 2,000 or higher rpm for full clutch engagement and that is about 3 mph.

 

[hondabob]

The reverse gear is a bit higher and its normal to get a mild shudder when backing up very slowly. Most don't back up very far so a low speed for a few feet won't heat up the clutch or cause any damage.

 

[JMRubicon]

Well I guess I will just have to deal with this problem because I am not buying a Polaris or Can Am. This machines seating arrangement fit my needs the best, and I hate the belt drive set ups. They are so loud you can't even talk when your riding with people. Not to mention I am a huge Honda fan. I love this machine, except this one problem. And I do feel its a problem. I should not have to be worried about going too slow on small hills or over rocks. I am going to take it out this weekend in the mountains and see how it does.

 

[hondabob]

brief low speed driving should be ok but prolonged low speed can heat up the clutch. I just hate belt drive too. Most all of the time I'm above 3 mph except for occasionally a short section. I drive my Pioneer 700 for extreme inching along rock crawling. Honda should have a much lower low range and reverse gear and I expect they might do it in future models. A lot of the guys install large tires and some dealers sell them with large tires.

 

[JMRubicon]

I will not be going below 3mph for extended periods of time. I trail ride, a lot, my Rincon has almost 13k miles and its an 08. Some trails are faster some are slower. But I do not want to have to worry about damaging a clutch every time I come to a tricky spot in the road. And I don't want to have to try and cross big rocks too fast and have this 1700# beast landing on the skid plates that hard. Maybe I will find out its not a huge problem once I am out on the trails, but climbing this tiny hill in my yard and it shuddering like this sure doesn't give me confidence.

 

[ghost]

I will not be going below 3mph for extended periods of time. I trail ride, a lot, my Rincon has almost 13k miles and its an 08. Some trails are faster some are slower. But I do not want to have to worry about damaging a clutch every time I come to a tricky spot in the road. And I don't want to have to try and cross big rocks too fast and have this 1700# beast landing on the skid plates that hard. Maybe I will find out its not a huge problem once I am out on the trails, but climbing this tiny hill in my yard and it shuddering like this sure doesn't give me confidence.

For me, it's a minor irritation that I forget about 99% of the time until it happens. Then I realize that I need to approach that particular situation a little different. Maybe a different angle or speed.
It seems to happen less now - either I'm learning to use the machine better or clutch break-in.

No matter what machine you get - it's gonna have quirks. Some more than others.