P1000 Shuddering

[Delton]

It'll get better once you get some miles on it. At just over 50 hrs, mine is a heck of alot smoother than when it was new. Mine hardly shudders at all now. And like others have said, I don't crawl around with it. When it's time to spray weeds, I break out the Foreman. When I come to big rocks or technical stuff, just grab some more throttle.

 

[Admin]

 

[Crow_Hunter]

There has been a lot of talk about this ever since the pioneer 1000 has came out. I did a short little video to let people know how my vehicle behaves on steep hills in very slow situations. I will say that the throttle is very sensitive and it takes some practice to be able to control it very smoothly.

Sorry to bring this back from the grave but is that what people are referring to when they have shuddering?

That isn't what my machine does at all. Mine doesn't surge or anything like what your video showed, when I start from a standstill on a hill or go up the side of a ravine I just feel a thumping/flutter that seems to be coming from behind with no noticeable impact to forward motion. Almost feels like rear tire bounce when on a slick surface but I didn't notice where it looked like I can spun the tires.

That actually gave me an idea for another experiment. I will try this again at home tonight with the machine in 4WD Lock and see if I still feel the same thing. If I don't, then it can't be the clutch slipping, it might just be the lugs on the tires spinning a little.

 

[Delton]

Sorry to bring this back from the grave but is that what people are referring to when they have shuddering?

That isn't what my machine does at all. Mine doesn't surge or anything like what your video showed, when I start from a standstill on a hill or go up the side of a ravine I just feel a thumping/flutter that seems to be coming from behind with no noticeable impact to forward motion. Almost feels like rear tire bounce when on a slick surface but I didn't notice where it looked like I can spun the tires.

That actually gave me an idea for another experiment. I will try this again at home tonight with the machine in 4WD Lock and see if I still feel the same thing. If I don't, then it can't be the clutch slipping, it might just be the lugs on the tires spinning a little.

I got 5 bucks that says you'll still feel it in 4wd locked or not. It's coming from your clutch engagement. The design of the 1000 just isn't as smooth as others.

 

[joeymt33]

Sorry to bring this back from the grave but is that what people are referring to when they have shuddering?

That isn't what my machine does at all. Mine doesn't surge or anything like what your video showed, when I start from a standstill on a hill or go up the side of a ravine I just feel a thumping/flutter that seems to be coming from behind with no noticeable impact to forward motion. Almost feels like rear tire bounce when on a slick surface but I didn't notice where it looked like I can spun the tires.

That actually gave me an idea for another experiment. I will try this again at home tonight with the machine in 4WD Lock and see if I still feel the same thing. If I don't, then it can't be the clutch slipping, it might just be the lugs on the tires spinning a little.

I also was a little bit bummed out about the clutch engagement when my machine was new. However, now that I have gone past 200 or 300 miles the clutch engagement seemed smooth out. Especially now that I'm approaching 800 miles it's as smooth as butter with no noise.

The point that I'm making is that what you are feeling now is not what you want have to deal with for the life of the machine.

 

[walexa07]

Sometimes I think when people talk about shudder that it could be the clutch is engaging and they are actually feeling the engine pulse at low rpm. I feel this sometimes when starting off on the side of a steep hill and such, but I don't really think it is clutch slippage/flutter. Those are just my thoughts/observations and I could be wrong. Otherwise I am very happy with my Pioneer so far. No issues and almost 500 miles (I think).

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I also was a little bit bummed out about the clutch engagement when my machine was new. However, now that I have gone past 200 or 300 miles the clutch engagement seemed smooth out. Especially now that I'm approaching 800 miles it's as smooth as butter with no noise.

The point that I'm making is that what you are feeling now is not what you want have to deal with for the life of the machine.

The shuddering/noise doesn't bother me at all. I hardly even notice it.

The thought that I am ruining my clutches using it and requiring a $3,800 clutch replacement (quote from dealer if it goes bad) because of "abuse" is what bothers me.

If all the shuddering was is noise but it will still last 10,000 miles, I wouldn't care. If the shuddering under load starting uphill is an indication that I am wearing out my clutch at an accelerated rate that will require me to spend 20% of the cost of the unit to get it back operational only to have it turn right around and need it again because I am using it, I don't like. Both my current house and my farm where I will likely eventually retire to and build a house are very hilly.

I can change out a BUNCH of belts AND repair quite a few other things on a piece of crap Poo Poo for that kind of outlay.

I am really surprised that Honda didn't at least design in replaceable clutch plates for the eventual point that all the material is worn off of them. They will wear out eventually without any "abuse".

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Sometimes I think when people talk about shudder that it could be the clutch is engaging and they are actually feeling the engine pulse at low rpm. I feel this sometimes when starting off on the side of a steep hill and such, but I don't really think it is clutch slippage/flutter. Those are just my thoughts/observations and I could be wrong. Otherwise I am very happy with my Pioneer so far. No issues and almost 500 miles (I think).

That is very similar sounding to what I hear. I wish I had something that I could film it with and show you guys. I don't own a smart phone or a Go Pro.

What Joey is showing in his film though is nothing like what I am seeing.

When I get into a quieter and more private environment (not at work) I will try to turn up the sound really loud and see if I can hear it but I really don't hear it as much as I feel it.

 

[CumminsPusher]

The shuddering/noise doesn't bother me at all. I hardly even notice it.

The thought that I am ruining my clutches using it and requiring a $3,800 clutch replacement (quote from dealer if it goes bad) because of "abuse" is what bothers me.

If all the shuddering was is noise but it will still last 10,000 miles, I wouldn't care. If the shuddering under load starting uphill is an indication that I am wearing out my clutch at an accelerated rate that will require me to spend 20% of the cost of the unit to get it back operational only to have it turn right around and need it again because I am using it, I don't like. Both my current house and my farm where I will likely eventually retire to and build a house are very hilly.

I can change out a BUNCH of belts AND repair quite a few other things on a piece of crap Poo Poo for that kind of outlay.

I am really surprised that Honda didn't at least design in replaceable clutch plates for the eventual point that all the material is worn off of them. They will wear out eventually without any "abuse".

How is it 3800? The clutches are under 500 and it's only a few hour job if I was understanding correctly

 

[Crow_Hunter]

How is it 3800? The clutches are under 500 and it's only a few hour job if I was understanding correctly

I don't know. That was the quote the dealer told me for replacing the clutch. He said they had to do 4 of them since the introduction of the Pioneer and that is what they cost. He said Honda made them replace the whole unit.

Now that was related to the shuddering problem.

If there is a way to easily replace the clutch plates/pad like in a manual transmission car it should be much, much cheaper but I don't know that for a fact.

 

[joeymt33]

I don't worry about shuddering at all. I use my vehicle forwards intended purpose and sometimes I go beyond its intended purpose. This vehicle will work hard.....





And it will play hard.......it climbs like a mountain goat even with a wheel up in the air.

 

[CumminsPusher]

If there's a problem under warranty they would replace everything but I think it's like 800 for them to do just clutches based off of a couple things I read here but don't quote me on that I just remember the price of the clutches from @JACKAL found them for and install was pretty straight forward I believe

 

[joeymt33]

Hey @Crow_Hunter, i'll try to do some more videos for you. Do you have any request?

I just want to see you start enjoying your vehicle or if it has a problem, then get it fixed.

I've never had to worry about any Honda I've ever owned, and I'm not going to start worrying about one that I spent $20,000 for. If it doesn't live up to my expectations, then I believe Honda should fix it and I'll do everything I can to make them fix it. So for me, I just keep the hammer down and the wheels down.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

If there's a problem under warranty they would replace everything but I think it's like 800 for them to do just clutches based off of a couple things I read here but don't quote me on that I just remember the price of the clutches from @JACKAL found them for and install was pretty straight forward I believe

That would make more sense than dropping and replacing the entire transmission just because the clutches are worn.

 

[CumminsPusher]

@joeymt33 its nice to see you beat that thing too!!

 

[CumminsPusher]

That would make more sense than dropping and replacing the entire transmission just because the clutches are worn.

I'm thinking @JACKAL knows the actual pricing. But I remember it was the price of like two belt jobs on a popo

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Hey @Crow_Hunter, i'll try to do some more videos for you. Do you have any request?

I just want to see you start enjoying your vehicle or if it has a problem, then get it fixed.

I've never had to worry about any Honda I've ever owned, and I'm not going to start worrying about one that I spent $20,000 for. If it doesn't live up to my expectations, then I believe Honda should fix it and I'll do everything I can to make them fix it. So for me, I just keep the hammer down and the wheels down.

Thanks!

How about the way you would cross a narrow ravine where the ravine width is basically the same as the length of your Pioneer and the walls of the ravine are somewhere around the height of your shoulders sitting in the machine. It would be interesting to know if you feel the same vibration as you start off or not. Maybe you won't because you do it better than I do.

Also starting from park on a steep hill. Do you feel any vibration?

I feel the shudder/vibration from the point I let off the brake and start giving it gas until I get moving fairly fast. It doesn't do this on flat areas.

I just thought about something it is like. It feels a lot like "brake torqueing" an automatic transmission car when I used to drag race friends on the back roads in high school. When you have the brakes held down and you throttle up and the brakes want to slip a little. That almost thrumming you will feel as the brakes slip a little.

Also similar to ABS feedback without the brake kickback in the pedal and not quite a fast.

That is why I figured it was a friction plate slipping since it has a similar feel.

 

[joeymt33]

Thanks!

How about the way you would cross a narrow ravine where the ravine width is basically the same as the length of your Pioneer and the walls of the ravine are somewhere around the height of your shoulders sitting in the machine. It would be interesting to know if you feel the same vibration as you start off or not. Maybe you won't because you do it better than I do.

Also starting from park on a steep hill. Do you feel any vibration?

I feel the shudder/vibration from the point I let off the brake and start giving it gas until I get moving fairly fast. It doesn't do this on flat areas.

I just thought about something it is like. It feels a lot like "brake torqueing" an automatic transmission car when I used to drag race friends on the back roads in high school. When you have the brakes held down and you throttle up and the brakes want to slip a little. That almost thrumming you will feel as the brakes slip a little.

Also similar to ABS feedback without the brake kickback in the pedal and not quite a fast.

That is why I figured it was a friction plate slipping since it has a similar feel.

I'll start working on it. I've got to go to Kentucky in a little while so I would love to get in a short ride before I go.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I'll start working on it. I've got to go to Kentucky in a little while so I would love to get in a short ride before I go.

Don't put yourself into a bind or anything.

Only if you have time.

I do appreciate it though.

 

[joeymt33]

Haha, bind... That's funny. I did put the pioneer in a bind just a few minutes ago. It lifted a tire and spun out trying to climb a hill. I'll upload it in a few minutes.

I'm glad to have an excuse to get it out and ride. Our mail box is 1/4 mile away and I usually check the mail every day and sometimes more than once just to do it. Heck, sometime I grab half the mail and take it home just so I can go back later to get the rest. oh, then I've got to get my mother and fathers mail, that requires an extra trip.

 

[joeymt33]

Don't put yourself into a bind or anything.

Only if you have time.

I do appreciate it though.

This is one video of several that I need to upload