Talon and Pioneer Tuning

Z

Zmorris83

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I've got a K&N air filter, the power commander 5 and auto tune. Probably stupid question, but doesn't the auto tune, constantly tune my maps? Or would I benefit from a custom tune like your sayin? Also CP what exhaust did you go with?
Autotune is complete GARBAGE!!! Every OHV we have tested it on runs EXTREMELY lean at WOT. Very dangerous. Lean is NOT mean contrary to popular wisdom.

SXSs, dirt bikes and ATVs are all my brother does. He owns a powersports shop in West Texas and has a drawer full of piggyback systems he has taken off of customers vehicles. A real tune tailored to your specific machine and driving style is INFINITELY BETTER.
 
Z

Zmorris83

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Figure out the trans tuning and see how much torque management is in the pioneer and remove/reduce.

For us running internal gear reductions it would be nice to get the shifts back right.
Both of those are already on my top priority list. With the IGR you need stronger clutch apply as well to compensate for the extra torque load over stock. Clutch apply is on the top priority list as well. Having both the Talon and Pioneer and knowing the differences in the tunes should make finding those maps, scalars and switches easier to find. Wish me luck, lol.
 
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Z

Zmorris83

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E85, Methanol and Nitromethane tunes are in the works too. I keep those fuels on hand. The only one really useful for actual riding will be E85. Even with a 25% drop in MPG the Honda SXSs will still have a longer range than any other SXS. E85 would be a great fuel for anyone who's already running premium.
 
J

JTW

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Autotune is complete GARBAGE!!! Every OHV we have tested it on runs EXTREMELY lean at WOT. Very dangerous. Lean is NOT mean contrary to popular wisdom.

SXSs, dirt bikes and ATVs are all my brother does. He owns a powersports shop in West Texas and has a drawer full of piggyback systems he has taken off of customers vehicles. A real tune tailored to your specific machine and driving style is INFINITELY BETTER.
Wouldn’t that depend on the map..
 
CumminsPusher

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Both of those are already on my top priority list. With the IGR you need stronger clutch apply as well to compensate for the extra torque load over stock. Clutch apply is on the top priority list as well. Having both the Talon and Pioneer and knowing the differences in the tunes should make finding those maps, variables and switches easier to find. Wish me luck, lol.
Clutching is based off of pressure. Can be adjusted manually, it’s not based off of the solenoid like shift points are.
 
joeymt33

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Wouldn’t that depend on the map..

That’s very true. The base map that came with the power commander was pretty crappy but building a custom map was much better. There are probably better options out there to be explored like mentioned above but so far with what we have available to us we’ve got about the best we can get.
 
strongbuilt

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Damn, curious about taking off the autotune now...
 
joeymt33

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Damn, curious about taking off the autotune now...

There’s no point in removing the autotune until we have a better option. It does exactly what you tell it to do. It will only give you a problem if you set it to be too rich or too lean. I’ve loved mine for a couple thousand miles or more.
 
Z

Zmorris83

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Clutching is based off of pressure. Can be adjusted manually, it’s not based off of the solenoid like shift points are.
Even when the max pressure is mechanically controlled there is still duty cycle to control apply pressure, shift timing and apply timing. You will notice this if you barely ease into the throttle without going fast enough for full engagement vs gently accelerate from a stop vs full throttle from a stop.

The mechanically regulated pressure DEFINITELY needs to be increased for a IGR setup. The popular consensus is that IGR decreases clutch load. This is exactly the polar opposite of correct and needs to be addressed.
 
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Z

Zmorris83

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Damn, curious about taking off the autotune now...
Like joeymt33 and others have mentioned, it can be modified to work in a pinch or in the absence of compatible tuning hardware/software. It can be made to work well at what it is capable of. The problem is all the stuff it is NOT capable of. That's a very long list. In original form they ARE GARBAGE. Stoich full throttle AFR is EXTREMELY damaging on anything with a high specific output.

No piggy-back system or "can tune" even remotely compares to a modified eeprom. I remove them and replace them with a real tune regularly. Literally no customer that I'm aware of has ever reverted back to them since 2003.
 
Z

Zmorris83

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Screenshot 20190627 192509


#28 sure looks like a PWM modulator, but that's just pure speculation. Which member is it that has the upgraded clutches and has been through this already?
 
joeymt33

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View attachment 138613

#28 sure looks like a PWM modulator, but that's just pure speculation. Which member is it that has the upgraded clutches and has been through this already?

Thats the shift solenoid, it can be adjusted. I took it out and screwed in the adjustment enough to make the shift a little bit firmer and quicker but it still not perfect. There’s only so much you can do because if you go to far the clutch will not disengage.

Fe2b0c41659413102e5645018df73044
 
popeye

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Curious how the Igr is harder on clutches? It takes less power to turn the same mass when you have a lower ratio. It why you don’t start in second gear as first.

Same reason why Yamaha lowered their 19’s in th yxz. Or why all the previous year rigs who trial ride spent big money to regear their trans. And I’m not talking Caitlin jenner trans


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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snuffnwhisky

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Curious how the Igr is harder on clutches? It takes less power to turn the same mass when you have a lower ratio. It why you don’t start in second gear as first.

Same reason why Yamaha lowered their 19’s in th yxz. Or why all the previous year rigs who trial ride spent big money to regear their trans. And I’m not talking Caitlin jenner trans


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The gear reduction is in-between the engine and clutch so the torque multiplication hits the clutch.
 
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snuffnwhisky

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Even when the max pressure is mechanically controlled there is still duty cycle to control apply pressure, shift timing and apply timing. You will notice this if you barely ease into the throttle without going fast enough for full engagement vs gently accelerate from a stop vs full throttle from a stop.

The mechanically regulated pressure DEFINITELY needs to be increased for a IGR setup. The popular consensus is that IGR decreases clutch load. This is exactly the polar opposite of correct and needs to be addressed.
If the voltage from the clutch pressure sensors are too low or high it will lock it in 2nd gear. I do not know what the threshold is. I shimmed my regulator spring and picked up about 10psi, basically getting me back to stock from what the clutch cover update took away. 110psi idle and 130 psi rev'ed up. The PC (Pressure Control) valve that @joeymt33 posted controls the pressure everywhere. It eases take off, eases shifts and cuts flow when disengaging. I've modded just about everything in mine mechanically but need in the computer now.
 
snuffnwhisky

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Just got on the website to price it out and I don't want to weld another O2 bung on a new exhaust, I wish they'd offer a couple sizes. The Autotune uses a larger bung. I wonder if I contacted them directly..

Theres an adapter. I used it.

Pretty sure the new PCV/Autotune does not come with the stock O2 dummy plug and you are suppose to use the stock O2 along with the Autotune O2 requiring you to get a clamp on or weld on O2 bung. I think @JTW and @Ragnar406 was sourcing a plug.
 
Plumber32

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Pretty sure the new PCV/Autotune does not come with the stock O2 dummy plug and you are suppose to use the stock O2 along with the Autotune O2 requiring you to get a clamp on or weld on O2 bung. I think @JTW and @Ragnar406 was sourcing a plug.
Oh. Mine came with the o2 sensor.
 
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