Talon differential won’t stay engaged

[PaulF]

Yes, I had the green connector apart when checking that the switch was sending power to engage the diff.
Switch is sending power. Still no 4wd.

Sounds like you probably have a bad clutch. Did you try directly jumping a ground and hot right to the clutch plug? If you tried and didn't hear a "click" then the clutch is probably bad.

If you want to test further before you buy a clutch, you should clear all your codes, remove the Hess bypass and start over. Keep in mind that i4WD will NOT engage with the motor stopped, it must be running. If you try to engage it with just the key on, the 4WD indicator in the dash will just rapidly switch between 2WD and 4WD. It will also do that if there is a problem with the system.

With all codes cleared, then you can start from scratch. You should get the stock i4WD working first, then re-attach the Hess stuff. Disconnecting the battery will NOT clear the codes. You must use this procedure. You can use some small solid core wire or small paper clip for the jumper and jump Brown/Red to Green...

 

[All_Moto]

I’m pretty mechanically inclined. Electrical is not my thing. I rebuild rzr differentials and trans pretty regular. I haven’t really found much info on the talon diff, more so the clutch. How it works and what not. Which not near as many people have problems with them like the rzrs do. If my clutch is bad, I may end up buying a complete diff, I’m the kind of guy that likes to have spare parts. I would like to figure out the issue and know what it is for sure, that way I have what parts I need to fix it when I’m ready to.
I will check it out again and go from there. Thank you for the input and help

 

[PaulF]

I’m pretty mechanically inclined. Electrical is not my thing. I rebuild rzr differentials and trans pretty regular. I haven’t really found much info on the talon diff, more so the clutch. How it works and what not. Which not near as many people have problems with them like the rzrs do. If my clutch is bad, I may end up buying a complete diff, I’m the kind of guy that likes to have spare parts. I would like to figure out the issue and know what it is for sure, that way I have what parts I need to fix it when I’m ready to.
I will check it out again and go from there. Thank you for the input and help

If you were closer, I would just do it for you. I have amassed all the testing equipment but manly all the probes, jumpers and connectors required to do a quick diagnosis.

Main thing is being able to test while the plugs are together and this requires jumpers. Sometimes testing when unplugged yields nothing out of the ordinary but as soon as you plug things together and start putting a load on the wiring and switches, a glaring defect rears it's ugly head.

Bad grounds are the most common defect on the Talon but are sometimes hard to diagnose. An ohm meter will read good but that is with no load on the circuit and is basically useless except for finding a completely broken wire. Since the stock and Hess systems use the same ground, that is where I suspect a wiring problem would be (if it is in fact a wiring problem and not the clutch). This is the reason to bypass everything and put a good ground and hot directly on the clutch and test it disconnected from everything else. If it is bad, it will not make any noise and you will know. If it makes noise, raise the vehicle and make sure the front is engaged by putting it in H and trying to spin the REAR wheels and see if the fronts follow along.

Good luck!

 

[All_Moto]

If you were closer, I would just do it for you. I have amassed all the testing equipment but manly all the probes, jumpers and connectors required to do a quick diagnosis.

Main thing is being able to test while the plugs are together and this requires jumpers. Sometimes testing when unplugged yields nothing out of the ordinary but as soon as you plug things together and start putting a load on the wiring and switches, a glaring defect rears it's ugly head.

Bad grounds are the most common defect on the Talon but are sometimes hard to diagnose. An ohm meter will read good but that is with no load on the circuit and is basically useless except for finding a completely broken wire. Since the stock and Hess systems use the same ground, that is where I suspect a wiring problem would be (if it is in fact a wiring problem and not the clutch). This is the reason to bypass everything and put a good ground and hot directly on the clutch and test it disconnected from everything else. If it is bad, it will not make any noise and you will know. If it makes noise, raise the vehicle and make sure the front is engaged by putting it in H and trying to spin the REAR wheels and see if the fronts follow along.

Good luck!

So unplug the connector, supply good ground and power, and see if it engages?

 

[PaulF]

So unplug the connector, supply good ground and power, and see if it engages?

YUP! Hardest part will be getting something in that small plug. And do not mix the hot and ground up either.

 

[All_Moto]

YUP! Hardest part will be getting something in that small plug. And do not mix the hot and ground up either.

Will do. Will check it out and see what happens. Haven’t had the talon out my h for a while. Seemed like the 4wd did fine at the dunes late summer. Noticed on the riding trip after that, it took a bit for it to engage. Now it’s definitely not healthy lol

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I’m pretty mechanically inclined. Electrical is not my thing. I rebuild rzr differentials and trans pretty regular. I haven’t really found much info on the talon diff, more so the clutch. How it works and what not. Which not near as many people have problems with them like the rzrs do. If my clutch is bad, I may end up buying a complete diff, I’m the kind of guy that likes to have spare parts. I would like to figure out the issue and know what it is for sure, that way I have what parts I need to fix it when I’m ready to.
I will check it out again and go from there. Thank you for the input and help

The 4wd clutch assembly is sold separately from the front diff, and the front diff is sold in a bunch of separate pieces. It won't be a cheap venture to keep all that stuff around as spares. The front diffs are fairly bulletproof on the Talons vs other brands and I haven't heard of any breaking unless it was damaged in a crash like mine was late last season.

 

[HondaTech]

Those are codes 1-2 Front Right Wheel Speed Sensor Abnormalities and 1-4 Front Left Wheel Speed Sensor Abnormalities.

Did you by any chance turn the key on with some wires disconnected? If so, that will set codes without even starting the machine or driving. it.

Pretty sure that blink pattern would yield code 12 and 14, not 1-2 and 1-4.

Unless the i-4wd is different the light only flashes the primary code number not the secondary number.

 

[PaulF]

Pretty sure that blink pattern would yield code 12 and 14, not 1-2 and 1-4.

Unless the i-4wd is different the light only flashes the primary code number not the secondary number.

i4WD is different than the other ECU's and on top of that, there are no "14-" codes (goes from 12- to 15- and skips right over 13- and 14-)...

 

[Enigma]

Great informaton PaulF. If you find a lose ground under the drivers set, what torque should you use to tighten it? Should you use blue Loctite to make sure it stays tight or will this affect the ground connection? Thanks

 

[PaulF]

Great informaton PaulF. If you find a lose ground under the drivers set, what torque should you use to tighten it? Should you use blue Loctite to make sure it stays tight or will this affect the ground connection? Thanks

Manual says 7 but you can go up to 11.8 lb.ft. on a grade 8.8 6mm bolt/nut. Never use Loctite on electrical connections, half the connection is at the bolt head and comes through the threads and you don't want to add any resistance there. The only thing I know that is suitable for electrical is dielectric grease and that is not appropriate for this connection.

 

[Enigma]

Manual says 7 but you can go up to 11.8 lb.ft. on a grade 8.8 6mm bolt/nut. Never use Loctite on electrical connections, half the connection is at the bolt head and comes through the threads and you don't want to add any resistance there. The only thing I know that is suitable for electrical is dielectric grease and that is not appropriate for this connection.

Thanks so much for the help. It is appreciated.

 

[All_Moto]

Had a little time to mess around in the garage. Wishful thinking, but I’m running 2 batteries, stock battery is borderline bad, and 2nd battery tests bad. Wishful thoughts, maybe that’s the issue

 

[All_Moto]

Had a little time to mess around in the garage. Wishful thinking, but I’m running 2 batteries, stock battery is borderline bad, and 2nd battery tests bad. Wishful thoughts, maybe that’s the issue

Replaced both batteries this evening. Still no 4wd. I’m not clear on how the clutch for diff works, but I’m guess that’s what’s wrong

 

[Smitty335]

Replaced both batteries this evening. Still no 4wd. I’m not clear on how the clutch for diff works, but I’m guess that’s what’s wrong

Did you check the new batteries for charge level?

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Replaced both batteries this evening. Still no 4wd. I’m not clear on how the clutch for diff works, but I’m guess that’s what’s wrong

When power and ground is applied to the wires in the green connector on the front diff it locks the front diff into 4wd using an electro-magnet inside the clutch housing. It's actually stupid simple, input shaft(u joint side) is separate from the output shaft(pinion side) and the clutch locks them together for 4wd.

 

[All_Moto]

Yes, charged and tested both. It won’t even try to engage now. I’ll try post a video from when it was engaging and going out. If I can figure out how to post it

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Did you check the new batteries for charge level?

It's not the batteries. If it starts it has enough juice to lock up the front diff clutch.

 

[All_Moto]

When power and ground is applied to the wires in the green connector on the front diff it locks the front diff into 4wd using an electro-magnet inside the clutch housing. It's actually stupid simple, input shaft(u joint side) is separate from the output shaft(pinion side) and the clutch locks them together for 4wd.

It’s seems crazy to me the clutch assembly is 900, and only 1300 for whole diff

 

[CID]

Yes, charged and tested both. It won’t even try to engage now. I’ll try post a video from when it was engaging and going out. If I can figure out how to post it

You'll have to upload to Youtube and paste the 'share' link here, it will embed.