Talon Talon knuckles

[Sheetmetalfab]

Let me preface this by saying:
I’m not trying to stir the pot, just looking for information.

Found these pictures of a talon R rear knuckle and a talon front knuckle broken.

Is there anyone else out there?

Any further information?

Covered by warranty or not?










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Admin]

 

[Hondasxs]

Assuming there is no other damage from hitting something I would think it would be covered.

Also assuming it's 2 different machines and not the same owner.

I would categorize this as a growing pain for the Talon. Honda will get it fixed if it's a issue.

I would like to hear some more professional input in the case coloring.
Ex. Is the light color hardened and the darn not.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Assuming there is no other damage from hitting something I would think it would be covered.

Also assuming it's 2 different machines and not the same owner.

I would categorize this as a growing pain for the Talon. Honda will get it fixed if it's a issue.

I would like to hear some more professional input in the case coloring.
Ex. Is the light color hardened and the darn not.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Yes 2 different machines.

2 different owners.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Several companies are making supports for the rear. Thats the first I've saw breaking the front ball joint mount.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Several companies are making supports for the rear. Thats the first I've saw breaking the front ball joint mount.

Do you have any more information about rear supports?

Do they tie several points together?

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Do you have any more information about rear supports?

Do they tie several points together?

The FB Talon pages have several. I just saw a simple one on weller racing website yesterday.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

An option for the talon R


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Better option.

Also for the talon R


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[jasond]

I haven't had any issues to this point, but I did go ahead and order a set of the Weller Racing Double Shear Brackets. For $25 bucks I figure it's worth it if it'll potentially keep a weekend trip intact.

Still need to put them on, but it should be as simple as can be.

Talon R Model Rear Upper Hub Double Shear Bracket Kit

 

[cummins14]

I wonder if these failures on the "R" model are due to the unique design of the upper 4+ link triangular arm putting major pressure on the knuckle in real world use? Honda loves to note how the design keeps the rear toe from changing much with the design, but common sense says to keep this toe change from happening, it has to send that extreme stress somewhere. Maybe the wider track has something to do with this as well?

 

[jasond]

I wonder if these failures on the "R" model are due to the unique design of the upper 4+ link triangular arm putting major pressure on the knuckle in real world use? Honda loves to note how the design keeps the rear toe from changing much with the design, but common sense says to keep this toe change from happening, it has to send that extreme stress somewhere. Maybe the wider track has something to do with this as well?

I'd say you're probably correct. I have absolutely no idea how many times this has already been a point of failure, but this is something I'd anticipate being revised in future model year improvements.

To me, it seems like a sliding/side impact on the rear tire would be the perfect recipe for shearing the casting off of the knuckle at the single shear point.

 

[RockR]

I wonder if these failures on the "R" model are due to the unique design of the upper 4+ link triangular arm putting major pressure on the knuckle in real world use? Honda loves to note how the design keeps the rear toe from changing much with the design, but common sense says to keep this toe change from happening, it has to send that extreme stress somewhere. Maybe the wider track has something to do with this as well?

I don't think this necessarily has anything to do with Honda's "R" unique design. As far as off road vehicles are concerned, a single shear mounting has been a weakness in ALL designs FOREVER. I'm not sure how many shock, trackbar, etc. mounts I've seen break over the 30+ years I've been playing in the mud, but I can tell you that once modified to double shear mount or similar reinforcement, the problem was usually solved. I only say "usually" because there is always the "hold my beer and let's see what it'll take" testing.

 

[cummins14]

In that case, Honda could have one upped the competition and actually made the mounts all double shear unless they wanted them to fail to sell more parts. I would think with their reliability and reputation, it would have been engineering dollars well spent. Maybe they will do this on the future models. Guess that's why they make the big bucks figuring the costs vs expenses and failure rates.

 

[RockR]

In that case, Honda could have one upped the competition and actually made the mounts all double shear unless they wanted them to fail to sell more parts. I would think with their reliability and reputation, it would have been engineering dollars well spent. Maybe they will do this on the future models. Guess that's why they make the big bucks figuring the costs vs expenses and failure rates.

I'm no expert on manufacturing processes, but looking at that assembly makes me think that they might not be able to make a casting/die that would make that mounting point a double shear. Maybe the engineers and their computers said "this should be strong enough" and figured the aftermarket would beef it up for the knuckleheads (pun intended) that actually ran it hard enough to break it.

 

[PaulF]

I am the owner of the broken FRONT knuckle in the original post. I have not seen another broken front knuckle and I have searched everywhere. The jump I took when it broke was minor (about 5 feet at 15 MPH in sand) and nothing else in the suspension was bent or damaged (except the lower control arm jammed against the rotor and bent it). I have seen some pretty crazy jumps online and even the Honda promotional videos show them treating the machine much harder than I did when mine broke without any problems so I am thinking I had a defective knuckle.

I have a CR incident report in with Honda and all I can say is it is a slow and tedious process. Took them over a month just to respond and they agreed to have the area rep look at it but I have to make an appointment with my dealer so they can look at it first. The rep was out of town and then I was out of town so timing has been a bit of a problem. They require the machine and the defective parts be taken to a dealer. The dealer will take pictures and report back to Honda and then after that is all done the area rep can look at it.

Needless to say, I have already replaced the knuckle, bent rotor and some miscellaneous plastic parts. A word of warning to all, Honda WILL NOT reimburse you if you replace parts on your own, even if they are defective. They have a strict policy that any warranty replacement MUST be reviewed and done by a dealer. I submitted the CR because the broken knuckle caused the machine to flip and I have additional bent/broken parts that I am trying to get them to replace. I don't think anything will become of it but it is worth a try, the remaining parts that need to be replaced are mostly cosmetic but one of them is really expensive.

 

[hondabob]

I would think if the part is defective Honda will cover it. I don't blame you for getting it fixed in the fast lane. The R and X use the same part. Its going to be interesting to see if they cover it. Landing hard on one front wheel will have a lot of stress on the part especially if it at an angle. Thanks for sharing the info.

 

[PaulF]

UPDATE... I finally got a resolution to my broken knuckle.

Let me preface this with a few things...

• I am not going to disclose dollar amounts or other monetary specifics so please don't ask.
• Although Honda did not cover the entire amount of the damage caused by the broken knuckle, they had good reason and I agree.
• My dealer threw in some concessions (they didn't have to do that) and I am satisfied with the outcome.
• My Service Manager is top notch. A resolution looked almost impossible at times but he never gave up and made this work out.

Took a long time but Honda had good reason (in my opinion) and this had to go way up the chain. Honda would not concede that the knuckle was faulty and they did what is called a "Good Will" warranty claim but did it in a strange way that the dealer had never seen so that I could get compensated for the parts that I had already replaced. The dealer did not do any repairs, Honda simply gave the dealer a lump sum amount and told them to give it to me. I have been told by several people (including the Honda CR rep) that Honda never does this. I believe this is one of the reasons it took so long. My dealer made nothing and is giving me some take-off parts to boot.

The biggest question was...
Did the knuckle break and cause the vehicle to flip or did the vehicle flip and cause the knuckle to break? No one will ever know for certain but since there have been several flipped and rolled Talons and no other broken front knuckles (that I have been able to find), it is reasonable to conclude that the knuckle on my machine could have been faulty. Another observation is that since I replaced the knuckle over 1000 miles ago, I have subjected it to MUCH worse conditions and it is fine.

The biggest expense is the rear Roll Cage. It is slightly tweaked and needs to be replaced. Honda would not give me enough to entirely cover it ($1,466 MSRP plus shipping) so my dealer has worked something out with me to resolve this.

Conclusions...

1. First and foremost, I do not believe the we should be worried about the front knuckles on our Talons. My first one broke at 14 miles from what I consider a minor jump/impact and now after 1000 plus miles and some pretty hard hits on the new one, I am confident that the front knuckles on the Talon are fine and that my original one was defective.
2. Honda may be methodical but they had good reason. They could have easily just said it was my fault and done nothing. Instead, they went up the chain of command and worked it through and although they didn't pay for everything, I agree with their final resolution to this issue.
3. My dealer is the absolute bomb!!! My service manager never gave up, they spent hours working this through without any compensation and and they even made other concessions to make the final outcome work for me.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

Thank you for bringing the information to everyone.

 

[HondaTech]

We go ahold of the Talon specialist when we had a stick jam through the floorboard on a R model.

He said they were covering almost anything because they wanted to help all the Talon owners out and keep goodwill with new customers.