P1000 Auxiliary Electrical System

[DmaxHunter]

Hey guys. I have been reading and researching a TON on this forum almost every day for the last two months straight in regards to dual battery setup and wiring everything up to pretty much have an auxiliary electrical system. So THANK YOU for all the info you guys have provided in many different threads.

I have pieced a lot of that together and have finally built my setup on paper. I am not an electrical wizard, and although I have a fairly good understanding of most of it, there are still plenty of things I don't know or things I may have not considered.

So here I am asking you, the experts, if you could look over my my design/setup and see if it makes sense or if I've got anything wrong. I want to start ordering parts and adding my first additions to my Pioneer to make it a killer machine like so many of you have. So below are some of my questions, and attached are some visuals of what I am trying to accomplish. Give me some feedback if you've got anything. And thanks in advance!

THOUGHTS AND DESIGN OF MY SYSTEM:
(Note: This is IF I add everything for a full system build, which I most likely won't do any time soon. This is just an all inclusive for anything that I think I might want for the foreseeable future.)
•Yellow Optima as auxiliary battery under drivers seat, completely isolated from primary system for all accessories. Connected to main via True-Isolator for charging purposes only.
•Aux Power is turned on via Master Power switch coming off the Aux battery.
•Only add to the primary system is one switch and one voltmeter.
•Winch Power will be provided directly off Aux Battery, and In/Out Switch and Remote Control will not be usable without winch power switch ON.
•Voltmeters – I do not want my voltmeters on all the time. I want to flip a switch, check them, then turn them back off.
•A Low Voltage Disconnect will be in line of the Aux battery and the (3) items that need a constant 12V source; Aux Voltmeter, Stereo (for presets memory) and Windshield Washer Motor. This LVD will give those things their constant 12V unless the battery drops below a pre-determined voltage then kills them so the aux battery doesn’t drain entirely from Parasitic Draw.
•Windshield Wiper uses a separate 5-pin relay.

QUESTIONS:
•Understand Bussmann relay sizes (30A), but what size for main relay/solenoid feeding everything after Aux Battery (200A??) and what size CB coming off Battery (200A??).
•What size fuses before all switches? Not the ones from the Bussmann but like Volt Meters and the Master Aux Power? Or are fuses even needed here?
•On the (5) relayed switches using the bussmann, can 2 and 6 be bridged? I want the lower wording to be lit when the switch has power (aka, anytime my master aux switch is on) and using one of the fused lines (F5) from the bussmann to pin 6 should work on all non-relayed switches. Can this same power source be bridged to pin 2 on relayed switches for incoming power? Or does pin 2 even get used on the relayed switches?
•Do my voltmeters need relays if I want them to be turned on/off by a switch?
•On my winch In/Out switch, can 2/8/10 be bridged so both in and out lights are always on when it has power from winch power switch?
•Are there any unnecessary fuses? Or lack of fuses?
•Are there any unnecessary relays? Or lack of relays?
•If I made the (+) cable long enough to be able to reach across the True-Isolator from Aux Battery to Primary Battery, could I disconnect it from the Isolator and essentially wire the two batteries in parallel for an emergency start if my Primary died for some reason and Aux still had some juice?

 

[joeymt33]

Holy crap!


CP: I've been saying that since that jack wagon was picking Legos from his turds

 

[elkaholic]

To the OP,re your question on the winch switch, the answer is yes. I have always wired my switches (in Jeeps and other rigs) so that I use a guarded master switch for winch power and a run the lights on the winch switch (as well as the hot input) off of the master.

If you retain the remote port and it is not right next to your winch in/out switch, you might consider a two position switch (on - on) between main switch and port / in-out switch to control which switch location is active.


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[zin01]

Wow. That all looks good and I'm not an electrical gu-ru but I have 2 things. 1 I went with the blue top optima because it is a deep cycle battery. 2 on your question about having to have a relay on your volt meter no you do not need a relay. All a relay does is engage a higher voltage then your switch can handle. IE your winch can draw let's say 200 amps. Well that would melt the little wires that go to your switch so you put a relay in there and your switch engages the relay and the relay IS the switch and your switch is a remote way to engage the relay. I hope that makes sense. So if you are switching something low voltage like the volt meter you don't need a relay because there are not very meany amps running through the wires.


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[joeymt33]

my comments are in red inside the quote below

Hey guys. I have been reading and researching a TON on this forum almost every day for the last two months straight in regards to dual battery setup and wiring everything up to pretty much have an auxiliary electrical system. So THANK YOU for all the info you guys have provided in many different threads.

I have pieced a lot of that together and have finally built my setup on paper. I am not an electrical wizard, and although I have a fairly good understanding of most of it, there are still plenty of things I don't know or things I may have not considered.

So here I am asking you, the experts, if you could look over my my design/setup and see if it makes sense or if I've got anything wrong. I want to start ordering parts and adding my first additions to my Pioneer to make it a killer machine like so many of you have. So below are some of my questions, and attached are some visuals of what I am trying to accomplish. Give me some feedback if you've got anything. And thanks in advance!

THOUGHTS AND DESIGN OF MY SYSTEM:
(Note: This is IF I add everything for a full system build, which I most likely won't do any time soon. This is just an all inclusive for anything that I think I might want for the foreseeable future.)
•Yellow Optima as auxiliary battery under drivers seat, completely isolated from primary system for all accessories. Connected to main via True-Isolator for charging purposes only.
•Aux Power is turned on via Master Power switch coming off the Aux battery.
•Only add to the primary system is one switch and one voltmeter.
•Winch Power will be provided directly off Aux Battery, and In/Out Switch and Remote Control will not be usable without winch power switch ON.
•Voltmeters – I do not want my voltmeters on all the time. I want to flip a switch, check them, then turn them back off.
•A Low Voltage Disconnect will be in line of the Aux battery and the (3) items that need a constant 12V source; Aux Voltmeter, Stereo (for presets memory) and Windshield Washer Motor. This LVD will give those things their constant 12V unless the battery drops below a pre-determined voltage then kills them so the aux battery doesn’t drain entirely from Parasitic Draw.
•Windshield Wiper uses a separate 5-pin relay.

QUESTIONS:
•Understand Bussmann relay sizes (30A), but what size for main relay/solenoid feeding everything after Aux Battery (200A??) and what size CB coming off Battery (200A??). looks like 100 amp solenoid would work find for this. I see you're not running the winch through it, good. I think you should fuse the line between the battery and solenoid though. either fuse or CB.
•What size fuses before all switches? Not the ones from the Bussmann but like Volt Meters and the Master Aux Power? Or are fuses even needed here? the switch itself doesn't use much power at all and a 10A fuse would be ok for all your switches.
•On the (5) relayed switches using the bussmann, can 2 and 6 be bridged? I want the lower wording to be lit when the switch has power (aka, anytime my master aux switch is on) and using one of the fused lines (F5) from the bussmann to pin 6 should work on all non-relayed switches. Can this same power source be bridged to pin 2 on relayed switches for incoming power? Or does pin 2 even get used on the relayed switches? yes, you can bridge those to get the lights on. I have two switches that are hot all the time so I can find the "interior light" even in the dark. its nice to be able to turn on the stereo or interior lights with out having to power up everything or turn the key on. the Pioneer uses 4 amps when the key is on so i try to avoid that. I travel for work and I'm gone for weeks at a time and my two switches that stay hot has never hurt the battery.
•Do my voltmeters need relays if I want them to be turned on/off by a switch? NOPE
•On my winch In/Out switch, can 2/8/10 be bridged so both in and out lights are always on when it has power from winch power switch?
yes you can do this but I can't remember which wires. you'll be able to figure it out though. i'll attach some pics below of my dash.
•Are there any unnecessary fuses? Or lack of fuses? I would add a fuse or CB between the AUX batt and solenoid
•Are there any unnecessary relays? Or lack of relays?
•If I made the (+) cable long enough to be able to reach across the True-Isolator from Aux Battery to Primary Battery, could I disconnect it from the Isolator and essentially wire the two batteries in parallel for an emergency start if my Primary died for some reason and Aux still had some juice? this may work or may not. if the starting battery is simply too low to start the vehicle then it will probably work. what if the stock battery had a bad fused cell or a dead short internally? joining the two may not work. I carry a lithium jump pack that is super small and light weight. even though I've never used it on the Pioneer, I know it will start it. I used it on a Kubota diesel tractor 3 times in a row doing a hay ride for some kids. that tractor battery was so dead that the dash wouldn't light up. the jump pack had 50% after starting that tractor several times.

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[joeymt33]

Here is what I think you want to do with your winch switch.

 

[joeymt33]

Here are the three things that I have hot all the time.



I can run the stereo and interior lights and check auxiliary battery voltage with the key off.

This actually comes in real handy and I only did it because of the times I wish I had these options before I did it. Just a thought for you.

I know @CumminsPusher placed a voltmeter near the outside of his vehicle so while sitting around a campfire listening to the radio he can easily check voltage without even getting up. Cool idea.

 

[Neohio]

@DmaxHunter Spend some time with someone that will model your switch panels. I have seen a switch panel that hold 2 rows of 5 switches, plus a Boss round radio and an 11th switch for turn signals.

 

[DmaxHunter]

If you retain the remote port and it is not right next to your winch in/out switch, you might consider a two position switch (on - on) between main switch and port / in-out switch to control which switch location is active.

That's a good idea with a switch to choose between the two for which one is active. Although I'm not sure I'm really concerned if both locations are live when the winch power is on, but definitely something to consider, thanks for the idea.

 

[DmaxHunter]

my comments are in red inside the quote below

looks like 100 amp solenoid would work find for this. I see you're not running the winch through it, good. I think you should fuse the line between the battery and solenoid though. either fuse or CB.

I think you're right, I could prob downsize the solenoid to 100A or so. I do have a CB planned right after the Aux battery before it gets to the Isolator. You think I should add a second between the Isolator and the solenoid?

the switch itself doesn't use much power at all and a 10A fuse would be ok for all your switches.

Kind of what I figured, so thanks for confirming that.

yes, you can bridge those to get the lights on. I have two switches that are hot all the time so I can find the "interior light" even in the dark. its nice to be able to turn on the stereo or interior lights with out having to power up everything or turn the key on. the Pioneer uses 4 amps when the key is on so i try to avoid that. I travel for work and I'm gone for weeks at a time and my two switches that stay hot has never hurt the battery.

Nothing on mine is going to be key on except the stock system voltmeter. All my switch lights will power up once I hit the Aux Power switch. It will be a switch all by itself fairly close to the key, so should be easy to find that one just by feel even if I can't see it. Once I hit that, I'll be able to see everything with their backlights. I strategically placed all my switches in a particular location so I could easily find the ones I needed just by feel without having to see them. And I think one of my goals is to eliminate lights inside the cab when I want to (aka when I turn off my aux power switch). So I'm not sure I want any lights constantly hot and lit, definitely something to consider though. Thanks for the idea. I might consider putting a dimmer on all the switch backlights. Does anyone know if these LED's are dimmable at all?

NOPE

Figured that was the case with the voltmeters, I just have seen some rigs/diagrams that did have them on relays but I think that's for a constant on voltmeter so the relay powers them on once the bus comes hot and turns them off again so they're not on 24/7 since they are wired directly to the battery. I figured the switch would replace the relay in that situation, just wanted to verify.

this may work or may not. if the starting battery is simply too low to start the vehicle then it will probably work. what if the stock battery had a bad fused cell or a dead short internally? joining the two may not work. I carry a lithium jump pack that is super small and light weight. even though I've never used it on the Pioneer, I know it will start it. I used it on a Kubota diesel tractor 3 times in a row doing a hay ride for some kids. that tractor battery was so dead that the dash wouldn't light up. the jump pack had 50% after starting that tractor several times.

Good consideration. I have seen you mention that jump pack before and that definitely is a sweet little tool. I might have to look into one of those.

 

[DmaxHunter]

Here is what I think you want to do with your winch switch.

Yep, exactly what I want my winch switch to look like once I flip the winch power switch

 

[DmaxHunter]

Wow. That all looks good and I'm not an electrical gu-ru but I have 2 things. 1 I went with the blue top optima because it is a deep cycle battery. 2 on your question about having to have a relay on your volt meter no you do not need a relay. All a relay does is engage a higher voltage then your switch can handle. IE your winch can draw let's say 200 amps. Well that would melt the little wires that go to your switch so you put a relay in there and your switch engages the relay and the relay IS the switch and your switch is a remote way to engage the relay. I hope that makes sense. So if you are switching something low voltage like the volt meter you don't need a relay because there are not very meany amps running through the wires.

I'll have to look into blue top, thanks for the consideration.

I understand the concept of relays and how they work. The only reason I specifically ask about the voltmeters is because I have seen a few diagrams of others builds where they did use a relay, but they didn't use a switch. Like you said the relay IS the switch. I'm guessing they use relays in these cases so they automatically turn on their voltmeters when their power bus comes hot and to auto turn off so they don't stay on constantly since they're wired directly to the battery. My switch is doing the same thing, just manually rather than automatically. Was just wanting confirmation I'm thinking about it correctly. Thanks for the input!

 

[Eltobgi]

A few comments! First nice layout! Next I have the Yellowtop and it is remarkable! Never a problem! On a dead primary using the secondary to jump it...consider a battery combine switch! Mine from Blue Sea Systems has on-off-combine and works great for winching as well when more power is needed during difficult pulls. Can't wait to watch your build unfold! Again nice work on design!

 

[elkaholic]

That's a good idea with a switch to choose between the two for which one is active. Although I'm not sure I'm really concerned if both locations are live when the winch power is on, but definitely something to consider, thanks for the idea.

Yes, it is less of an issue with an ATV or SxS size vehicle. On a full size 4x4 where the remote port is usually on the winch itself, it becomes a bit more valuable.

Luckily my Land Cruiser has a PTO winch so that can only be controlled from the driver seat ....


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[DmaxHunter]

A few comments! First nice layout! Next I have the Yellowtop and it is remarkable! Never a problem! On a dead primary using the secondary to jump it...consider a battery combine switch! Mine from Blue Sea Systems has on-off-combine and works great for winching as well when more power is needed during difficult pulls. Can't wait to watch your build unfold! Again nice work on design!

Thank you very much! I took what you all had said seriously, on taking the time to really plan it out. I'll start my build thread once I can get some parts ordered and make it back home to my Pioneer in a month.

Good to know about the Yellow Top. I see a LOT of different models for the yellow top. Which one did you go with? Because the prices vary a good bit. I had seen a little mention about the battery combine switch around here, just didn't know if I wanted to add yet another to my already busy panel. It makes sense for the heavy winching load but I hadn't thought about it for the jumping portion. Another good idea I'll have to consider.

 

[Neohio]

@DmaxHunter
Check this out. I just ordered one. I am running out of space on my panel and do not like how much room the round meters take.

Waterproof 10V-60V Switch Shape Double Significant Voltage Volt Meter Voltmeter | eBay

Edit:
Here is a screenshot of my panel. I can modify to remove turn signal switch and radio and add more switch locations if you want.

 

[elkaholic]

Thank you very much! I took what you all had said seriously, on taking the time to really plan it out. I'll start my build thread once I can get some parts ordered and make it back home to my Pioneer in a month.

Good to know about the Yellow Top. I see a LOT of different models for the yellow top. Which one did you go with? Because the prices vary a good bit. I had seen a little mention about the battery combine switch around here, just didn't know if I wanted to add yet another to my already busy panel. It makes sense for the heavy winching load but I hadn't thought about it for the jumping portion. Another good idea I'll have to consider.

Or you can use a solenoid to combine the batteries similar to what motorized RVs doe for emergency starting. It is more complex than the simple blue sea switch, but workable


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[joeymt33]

I might consider putting a dimmer on all the switch backlights. Does anyone know if these LED's are dimmable at all?

I have used this dimmer for interior lights. Its expensive but it is the one I found that holds up to water and dust.

 

[DmaxHunter]

Very Interesting find for the voltmeter @Neohio I like that, to be able to get 2 battery readings in such a small unit. That saves some room for sure. I don't like the big round ones either which is why I found the small rectangular ones but this might be even better.

What is the cutout hole size for the radio on this panel?

 

[DmaxHunter]

I have used this dimmer for interior lights. Its expensive but it is the one I found that holds up to water and dust.

I've seen you post this one before and it's already in my amazon cart lol. It is what I'm panning on using for my interior cab lights as well.

The lights I'm talking about now, and adding a second dimmer for, are the switch lights themseleves. I don't like super bright lights coming from my switch panels while I'm driving, and so I'm curious if the LED's in the switches themselves are dimmable at all?