P1000 Best shocks for the other guy. Mud, Trail, Street 32s lift

[Bradley-Thornton]

I read about the shocks most of y'all are using and everyone is trail rinding on 28-30in tire and riding 30mph down a trail and Im not sure how that would work for my setup.

ME: Street 25%, Mud 30%, Trails 40%, Water 5%, Never over 30mph and thats on the street more like 15-20mph on dirt. 100% NO jumping ever

From all my reading I'm thinking 814s. Really want whats going to give me the most at the best price. I can spend 3k but with the mud riding not sure how long they will last and getting 3k muddy just not sure.

Can I get a Smooth ride on the trails thats all I want? (((Below 20mph)))

What I have
2016 1000-5 deluxe
C-fab a-arms 2in lift built in.
32in outbacks
front seat say 320lbs me and wife maybe a kid (combined)
back seat say 150lb both kids (combined)

In the mud I don't care how it rides. But I need the wife happy in the trails. BUT I will get the shocks muddy. SOOOOO

 

[Admin]

 

[Bradley-Thornton]

No one?

 

[aauman88]

Wish I could help on what shock to get but I had to let you know your Pioneer is one of the best looking setups I’ve seen

 

[GlockMeister]

No one?

I really like my Fox's. I like the simplicity of only 3 settings. Anything will be better than stock.

 

[Cuoutdoors]

I read about the shocks most of y'all are using and everyone is trail rinding on 28-30in tire and riding 30mph down a trail and Im not sure how that would work for my setup.

ME: Street 25%, Mud 30%, Trails 40%, Water 5%, Never over 30mph and thats on the street more like 15-20mph on dirt. 100% NO jumping ever

From all my reading I'm thinking 814s. Really want whats going to give me the most at the best price. I can spend 3k but with the mud riding not sure how long they will last and getting 3k muddy just not sure.

Can I get a Smooth ride on the trails thats all I want? (((Below 20mph)))

What I have
2016 1000-5 deluxe
C-fab a-arms 2in lift built in.
32in outbacks
front seat say 320lbs me and wife maybe a kid (combined)
back seat say 150lb both kids (combined)

In the mud I don't care how it rides. But I need the wife happy in the trails. BUT I will get the shocks muddy. SOOOOO

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Uh well, I dont know what you were reading but these folks arent cruising 30mph down the trails. They average 8-10 and might hit 15-20 tops in a few spots.

I think the fox shocks would work well for you or whatever @joeymt33 is using he has big tires. @nbomar has 30 or 32 inch tires and he runs elkas.

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[Cuoutdoors]

No one?

Give it time young grasshopper

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[joeymt33]

I’m using elka stage 3. I’ve spent a lot of time in the mud and beating them on the trail. They hold up great.

I’d be worried more about getting the spring rate and valving correct. I actually went with a heavier spring in all for corners. You can buy them at Summit racing for $40 each.

 

[Rambo]

Just a thought but I'm pretty certain the 814s are going to add lift, not sure your axles will like that.

 

[Dragon21]

Id say 814 or Fox. No reason to spend money on the more expensive elkas or WE if you aernt going to be riding fast IMO.

 

[Bradley-Thornton]

I’m using elka stage 3. I’ve spent a lot of time in the mud and beating them on the trail. They hold up great.

I’d be worried more about getting the spring rate and valving correct. I actually went with a heavier spring in all for corners. You can buy them at Summit racing for $40 each.

Would heavier spring give me a stiffer ride. I want it as soft as I can get it. Am I off. People say that C-Fab lift makes it stiffer also due to lifting the shocks. Do you have a lift? I thought about going Elka stage 5 but not sure it will make the ride softer.

I see what people are saying about the 814s, With my C-fab built in lift it binds the shocks up some 814s would just be more in a bind thats the opposite of what I want.

But again the shocks with the most adjustment I should be able to find a soft spot I would think.

Just looking for some real world experiences.

Thanks any info is good info

 

[Dragon21]

Would heavier spring give me a stiffer ride. I want it as soft as I can get it. Am I off. People say that C-Fab lift makes it stiffer also due to lifting the shocks. Do you have a lift? I thought about going Elka stage 5 but not sure it will make the ride softer.

I see what people are saying about the 814s, With my C-fab built in lift it binds the shocks up some 814s would just be more in a bind thats the opposite of what I want.

But again the shocks with the most adjustment I should be able to find a soft spot I would think.

Just looking for some real world experiences.

Thanks any info is good info

I think @Michigander is running a cfab lift, or some sort of lift with his. Also @thevinylcreator has lift from his a arms and using the 814's

You can use them without lift, @814utvsuspension can probably elaborate. Or ask on the facebook group.

Stage 5's are the way to go if you can afford them. However from my limited knowledge they wont do as much at the low speed so might be overkill for what you need. They shine more with high speed

 

[joeymt33]

I don’t know much about the 814 shocks. If looking at those then I would do some research and find out if that is tuned specifically for the vehicle or if it is an off-the-shelf shock that has been adapted to fit.

A lot of research goes in to the travel of the shock and its position in which it is mounted to get the valving right. It’s amazing what a properly tuned shock can do.

Maybe @snuffnwhisky can chime in here as well because he has looked into this quite extensively.

Sometimes you can add a heavier spring rate and get a better ride because there are other factors involved than just the spring rate. If you had a real soft spring it may bottom out too easy and cause the vehicle to wobble all over the place unless you added a bunch of preload which would then make it as stiff and maybe stiffer than a heavier spring rate.

For example, I like the 275 pound spring in the rear of mine. If I were to go to a 250 pound spring I would have to add probably 2 inches of preload which would mean I would be riding on 500 pounds total and just one more inch of compression would be 750 pounds or 2 inches would be 1000 pounds.

With the 275 pound spring you might could get away with less preload. For example, maybe 1.5 inches of preload would be OK which would be just a little more than 400 pounds at static load. And then one more inch of compression while on the trail hitting bumps would still be at a lower spring rate than the lighter spring would be.

The point is, you’re not just looking at spring right only. You’re looking at what is the spring rate under the weight of the vehicle and how does that spring rate progress as the suspension is working.

The information on my vehicle won’t be much help to you because my shock angles are much different. My front shocks are mounted in a custom location that is not like any of the OEM vehicles or aftermarket lift kits. I’m using a 275 pound spring in the back with 2 inches of lift that kept the shock angle in the OEM location. In the front I have moved my lower shock mount further out towards the ball joint and using a 225 pound spring. Before I moved the lower shock mount away from the vehicle I was using a 250 pound spring which worked very good.

Also, Elka seems to have done a good job with the valving to allow the shock to work freely and provide a smooth ride but it’s bottom out resistance seems to be pretty good. Obviously the stage five shocks could be tuned extremely well because you could control low speed and high-speed compression as well as the rebound.

I used Walker Evans shocks for about a year and I can tell you they were really smooth when not pushing them too hard but they would bottom out easier than the elka’s. They were so soft the vehicle would not stay planted very well and that hurt performance as the vehicle wanted to lean too much. That would translate to a firmer ride because going over bumpy terrain or when the vehicle was leaning, the shocks would bottom out easier or were already so compressed that the spring rate was high because it was near the bottom of the travel.

I think the Walker Evans would be great for a stock vehicle without several hundred pounds of accessories. You can give your vehicle dimensions and specifications to Elka and they will help get the shocks customized for you. Fox would also do that for you, you could buy the fox shocks and take them to a dealer and have them re-valved to your liking.

Hopefully I’m not too far off on a lot of this information. I know snuff and maybe a couple others that are more knowledgeable will come along soon and speak more intelligently.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

I would say it all boils down to how much you want to spend. I have the Elka 5's and they ride pretty good slow and fast. The build quality of the Elka's are really nice. The anodizing is top notch, the pivot bearings and seals are high end and the preload collar having the hole and pinch bolt is really nice also. The downside of the Elka's would be parts and service since they are Canadian. I did originally bought the 4's and wanted to tweak the valving for my kind of riding so I sent them back to Elka and they did a free revalve and I paid the difference to upgrade to the stage 5's.

Fox has always had good shaft steel and seals. That would be something to consider being in the mud a lot. Fox also has the most rebuilders and easiest access to parts. I think the Fox's with a softer spring would be better. Honda specs the shock to Fox so they have to imagine worst case scenario for load capacities. Springs are cheap and easy to swap.

I rode in @joeymt33 when he had the WE's. They were pretty soft, lots of body roll without the swaybar but I think he had them setup pretty soft. They did jump good. He now has the Elka 3's and it rides like a cadillac but there are mods from stock geometry to get 32's to fit without much lift.

The Fox's, Elkas and WE's are basically 20" long extended, like stock, with a 6" stroke. The eyelets are the correct length so there is no interference. The 814's use a limit strap to stop extension at about 20". The reason you hear about the 814's adding lift is the spring rate is heavy so they do not compress as much. I am assuming they are running a heavier spring to help with softer valving. The Fox's have a pretty heavy spring also but they are a variable rate spring. The tighter wound coils up top have a lower spring rate than the lower. The top of the spring is used to get the ride height as it will compress and bind and then the lower coil will take over.

I'm not sure about the 814's, but I know the other 3 can be revalved to provide any kind of ride you want. It looks like that tire setup is pretty heavy so valving for the unsprung weight would be a factor. Normally you select the correct spring for the weight and the valving dictates the handling/ride. Usually around $75 per shock for a revalve, seals and oil.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

I've saw on Fox's website that you can upgrade the 3 setting adjuster to the RC2 adjuster that has High and Low speed adjustments also.

 

[Superthrill]

Best ride I have ever set in was a moonbuggy we built on Sway Away Race Runner Air shocks. Would not run Baja with it, but for crawling it was soooooo comfortable.

Setup some bypass shocks on an ECORS rig that was nice in the fast stuff.

I really think I would be happier with shocks that have some high speed valving. At least with the Fox , you can add valving later if you want. That would help with the sudden large bumps and hard hits and let it stay supple everywhere else.

Having such a short amount of travel also makes things harder to setup and makes spring rate more crucial .

Could sell some things and do custom King's, but then, might as well bought an X3.

The Pioneer really snowballing on me and I have to remind myself what I bought it for.

Looking forward to the Takeover to see some setups.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Best ride I have ever set in was a moonbuggy we built on Sway Away Race Runner Air shocks. Would not run Baja with it, but for crawling it was soooooo comfortable.

Setup some bypass shocks on an ECORS rig that was nice in the fast stuff.

I really think I would be happier with shocks that have some high speed valving. At least with the Fox , you can add valving later if you want. That would help with the sudden large bumps and hard hits and let it stay supple everywhere else.

Having such a short amount of travel also makes things harder to setup and makes spring rate more crucial .

Could sell some things and do custom King's, but then, might as well bought an X3.

The Pioneer really snowballing on me and I have to remind myself what I bought it for.

Looking forward to the Takeover to see some setups.

It is only 10" of wheel travel so no trophy truck racing unless you like rebuilding the frame lol. I almost endo'ed mine one of the first days I had it. I hit a little 10" tall berm running 30-40 and the ass end went straight up in the air. Pretty sure I rode on the front wheels for 75 foot. (Elkas - barely tell you even went over it) Ordered shocks not long after that. Good shocks is what might save you from wrecking if you come up on something not expecting it. My elkas also have 2 flutter stacks to get a more progressive dampening curve. They also have 14-15 thinner disk on the compression side so the bending transition is really smooth compared to a usual 7+/- disk setup. I have a downhill to flat transition going from my yard to the house driveway with a small ditch between. With the stock shocks I would have to basically be rolling to go across it diagonally to keep from getting side to side whiplash. Now, I don't have a speed limit besides the house being in the way.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

 

[DDDonkey]

WOW that thing sounds MEAN!

 

[Ragnar406]

It is only 10" of wheel travel so no trophy truck racing unless you like rebuilding the frame lol. I almost endo'ed mine one of the first days I had it. I hit a little 10" tall berm running 30-40 and the ass end went straight up in the air. Pretty sure I rode on the front wheels for 75 foot. (Elkas - barely tell you even went over it) Ordered shocks not long after that. Good shocks is what might save you from wrecking if you come up on something not expecting it. My elkas also have 2 flutter stacks to get a more progressive dampening curve. They also have 14-15 thinner disk on the compression side so the bending transition is really smooth compared to a usual 7+/- disk setup. I have a downhill to flat transition going from my yard to the house driveway with a small ditch between. With the stock shocks I would have to basically be rolling to go across it diagonally to keep from getting side to side whiplash. Now, I don't have a speed limit besides the house being in the way.

@snuffnwhisky Is there a ratio for "Travel" Honda has 10" of travel (little more in front) so what % is down and what % is up from say level? would it typically be set up say for 2.5" of drop and 7.5 of compression? So if it has 18" travel would the breakdown be % wise the same? 4.5" down and 13.5" up?

 

[snuffnwhisky]

@snuffnwhisky Is there a ratio for "Travel" Honda has 10" of travel (little more in front) so what % is down and what % is up from say level? would it typically be set up say for 2.5" of drop and 7.5 of compression? So if it has 18" travel would the breakdown be % wise the same? 4.5" down and 13.5" up?

Ride height is usually set for the type of riding you do, spring rate & shock design. With only 6" of shock travel on the pioneer I like 4" available for up travel at ride height with my softer springs. I can use my full travel pretty much everywhere. If you have a lot of preload and/or heavy springs, it is hard to get full compression without weight bias to the compressed wheel. Also with very little droop travel, you'll see a lot of guys picking a tire up in the air pretty easy. Your higher end shocks with an internal bypass or bottom out control has a narrower range of where they like to be ran. The longer travel shocks typically use a dual rate spring with a crossover, so that changes the spring rate a lot and allows you to get the ride height you want and have the main spring kick in where you want. A 225# over a 225# spring on a dual rate setup is actually only 112# per inch since both coils will compress 1" each with a 225# load. A lot of your slow speed rock crawler guys are more like 30% up and 70% down. Most of your higher speed guys are closer to opposite of that. Shock angles also play a big roll.