P1000 burnt clutches up with less than 400 miles

[CumminsPusher]

I know possibly stupid question but would a higher viscosity oil have any chance at a higher clamping power?

 

[Admin]

 

[Delton]

All true and as you well know there are several variables (in pressure) involved also. Something as simple as a piece metal left from machining can stick a bypass valve open enough to cause a pressure drop.

That's why I think it would be interesting to see the oil pressure on different machines. Of course there are variables involved there too like temperature, rpm and oil viscosity.

Careful man! You'll be accused of faulting Hondas QC like I was lol. Your point is very valid imo. I was also thinking exact same thing. Or even the flashing or lip left behind from casting process. Very easy to disrupt oil flow. Add to that how sensitive clutch engagement/disengagement is (extremely sensitive). That's a recipe for a few failures if I ever saw it.

 

[Delton]

I know possibly stupid question but would a higher viscosity oil have any chance at a higher clamping power?

It would affect oil pressure so id say yes. If something as minute as bearing wear affects pressure, oil viscosity certainly would.

 

[Delton]

I'm absolutely positive on this. They can't possibly see all machines as a whole to test...it shifts send it. It's the first such thing to come out with a sxs. Maybe it's seen as a percentage deal though. If only said numbers of machines have a problem then that could be fixed cheaper then to be assured all go flawless. Kind of like theft in a business it's cheaper to allow some theft and figure that into the overall price then to stop it completely and suffer that cost.


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Agree 1000% with you man. Just be sure and take care of the few as much as financially possible. Word of mouth is awesome advertising tool. And I'm quick to call somebody trying to skim my hard earned cash. I'm brand loyal but im even more dollar loyal lol

 

[CumminsPusher]

Careful man! You'll be accused of faulting Hondas QC like I was lol. Your point is very valid imo. I was also thinking exact same thing. Or even the flashing or lip left behind from casting process. Very easy to disrupt oil flow. Add to that how sensitive clutch engagement/disengagement is (extremely sensitive). That's a recipe for a few failures if I ever saw it.

I'm definitely not as technical on internals as you all but this is along the lines of what I was thinking but I guess I didn't understand how to put this into words


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[CumminsPusher]

Agree 1000% with you man. Just be sure and take care of the few as much as financially possible. Word of mouth is awesome advertising tool. And I'm quick to call somebody trying to skim my hard earned cash. I'm brand loyal but im even more dollar loyal lol

I'm the same way! If I thought popo was more dependable and my dollar would stretch better I'd be driving that. It's all about bang for buck


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[Delton]

I know possibly stupid question but would a higher viscosity oil have any chance at a higher clamping power?

Just give me a single clutch basket with 5 springs for clamping. I'll modify a lockup for the outer hub and my stuff will NEVER slip under any conditions lol

 

[1BadDart]

I know possibly stupid question but would a higher viscosity oil have any chance at a higher clamping power?

IMO if the clutch is pressure dependent and everything in the oiling system is up to snuff, no. The reason being is that the pump should have the capacity to pump enough pressure to open the bypass valve with any oil within the recommended viscosity range. the bypass sets the limit on how much pressure the system can build, or should in normal circumstances. Now the additive package and lubricity of the oil may come into play, if all the oils being used meet Hondas spec it shouldn't. But who knows.

I'm leaving now to pick up my back panel so I'll pick my service guys brain some.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Just give me a single clutch basket with 5 springs for clamping. I'll modify a lockup for the outer hub and my stuff will NEVER slip under any conditions lol

Kind of like my dirtbike that is an 05 with 16,000 miles on it. I haven't torn up those clutches still stock


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[Delton]

I'm definitely not as technical on internals as you all but this is along the lines of what I was thinking but I guess I didn't understand how to put this into words


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I'm not technical. I've worked on Jap bikes for around 3 decades but I'm not educated nor am I in any way an engineer. Alot of the stuff being posted here makes perfect sense to me. I think it's kinda like putting a Ferrari engine in a rock crawler. Yeah you got killer power and it's dependable. But you gotta track down a highly trained technician to just change the oil lol. Hopefully y'all get my point. Sometimes simple is just better imo. I creep along all day long on my Foreman spraying weed killer on fence posts. And when I want to go fast (ish), I hammer down at whopping 40mph lol. I like sticking with what works. For power toys, don't give me complicated. Give me rock solid operation.

 

[Delton]

IMO if the clutch is pressure dependent and everything in the oiling system is up to snuff, no. The reason being is that the pump should have the capacity to pump enough pressure to open the bypass valve with any oil within the recommended viscosity range. the bypass sets the limit on how much pressure the system can build, or should in normal circumstances. Now the additive package and lubricity of the oil may come into play, if all the oils being used meet Hondas spec it shouldn't. But who knows.

I'm leaving now to pick up my back panel so I'll pick my service guys brain some.

Didn't think of there being a cap on pressure with relief valve. Good catch. Up to that point it "might" help? Who knows. Let us know if you discover anything to add please.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I'm not technical. I've worked on Jap bikes for around 3 decades but I'm not educated nor am I in any way an engineer. Alot of the stuff being posted here makes perfect sense to me. I think it's kinda like putting a Ferrari engine in a rock crawler. Yeah you got killer power and it's dependable. But you gotta track down a highly trained technician to just change the oil lol. Hopefully y'all get my point. Sometimes simple is just better imo. I creep along all day long on my Foreman spraying weed killer on fence posts. And when I want to go fast (ish), I hammer down at whopping 40mph lol. I like sticking with what works. For power toys, don't give me complicated. Give me rock solid operation.

That was the case prior to the 1000. And that's why I'm not sold on the LE just yet. If it works don't f*** with it


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[Delton]

I got called stupid for making a point on the fb page. It's nice to discuss stuff with grownups like y'all. We are all learning here.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I got called stupid for making a point on the fb page. It's nice to discuss stuff with grownups like y'all. We are all learning here.

Ya I hope people aren't thinking I'm against Honda here. That's not the case I'd just like my machine back and in turn hopefully help any others that come down this road.
I'm very thankful to you all for helping with the technical end of this it's appreciated


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[Delton]

Ya I hope people aren't thinking I'm against Honda here. That's not the case I'd just like my machine back and in turn hopefully help any others that come down this road.
I'm very thankful to you all for helping with the technical end of this it's appreciated


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Man anyone that calls you or me anti-Honda has not been paying attention one bit. (Here I go wishful thinking again) but I wish a Honda tech or engineer would like on here and answer a few questions. I don't mean a question free for all, just a few relevant clutch questions. We could even do a poll to make sure only the most relevant ones get asked. I know I know...wake up Delton and put down the medication. It'd still be nice.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Man anyone that calls you or me anti-Honda has not been paying attention one bit. (Here I go wishful thinking again) but I wish a Honda tech or engineer would like on here and answer a few questions. I don't mean a question free for all, just a few relevant clutch questions. We could even do a poll to make sure only the most relevant ones get asked. I know I know...wake up Delton and put down the medication. It'd still be nice.

It would sure make many of the thread go away and shorten many.


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[snuffnwhisky]

6 & 7 I figured was for the clutch. 8 for the engine. Below 17 might be the regulator.

http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2016-honda-pioneer-1000-5-sxs1000m5d/o/m157687#sch939239

 

[Eltobgi]

Your last 2 sentences should be someone's Sig on here!! Exactly how I drive mine. Like it's a 30 yr old proven design that won't fail. If it does, it does. I replaced clutch packs in my race bike at least twice a year. I'll figure this one out (with CPs how to lol). Drive it without worry.

Well Said...& Great Idea for Sig

 

[Eltobgi]

I know possibly stupid question but would a higher viscosity oil have any chance at a higher clamping power?

I've been thinking that very same question and what percentage of clutch issues fall on both sides

 

[CumminsPusher]

I've been thinking that very same question and what percentage of clutch issues fall on both sides

There are many I'm sure that are "driver error " but like I said it shouldn't be driver error. People shouldn't need instructions on an automatic. It should work like the brand has for years. Seems like too much "driver error" imo. How many of us explain to others that drive our rig to not do this or not do that? Name another Honda product that happens on.


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