P1000 burnt clutches up with less than 400 miles

[white1000]

I know there are a few threads about clutches burnt up, how many have had this issue? Big tires? Running in High range? Any HD clutch packs out there?

I'm running 30 inch tires now, I hope this wont be a reacurring issue, any imput would be great!!
Thanks

 

[Admin]

 

[wyodlr]

I would recommend internal gear reduction if you are running 30's . Use manual mode and low range to keep your rpms up and don't try to back up a hill or creep backwards or it will happen again

 

[CumminsPusher]

Exactly what was said above. No aftermarket yet. Packs are available still I believe.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I know there are a few threads about clutches burnt up, how many have had this issue? Big tires? Running in High range? Any HD clutch packs out there?

I'm running 30 inch tires now, I hope this wont be a reacurring issue, any imput would be great!!
ThanksView attachment 28557

Can you give some more details?

Did you mostly run in High Range?

Mudding?

Towing?

Hills and valleys or mostly flat?

High speed or low speed?

I think Honda has a problem and I think the more data they have on when the problem seems to happen the most, the easier time they will have coming up with an appropriate solution.

(Plus it will help other members that have similar issues diagnose or avoid similar issues.)

 

[AKRider]

I'd go with @wyodlr suggestions. I'm looking at the IGR myself, but that won't be until next year sometime. My suggestion as to how to drive the machine is in my signature line. I haven't had any clutch issues yet. Hopefully I never will.

 

[Manwell]

Not claiming to be an expert on the clutch issues, but if you make some very significant drive train modification and then find the weak link, don't be shocked. The OEM can't possibly design for any and every possible modification... Just a wild guess, but I'm betting the clutch design was based on OEM size tires with some safety factor - probably 1.5 to 2.0 SF.

 

[AKRider]

Not claiming to be an expert on the clutch issues, but if you make some very significant drive train modification and then find the weak link, don't be shocked. The OEM can't possibly design for any and every possible modification... Just a wild guess, but I'm betting the clutch design was based on OEM size tires with some safety factor - probably 1.5 to 2.0 SF.

Good point, and I've thought about that as well. I won't be doing it for a while. There are enough people doing the IGR now, so by the time I can even seriously think about doing it there should be information out about it.

 

[Manwell]

Good point, and I've thought about that as well. I won't be doing it for a while. There are enough people doing the IGR now, so by the time I can even seriously think about doing it there should be information out about it.

I work in the industrial power transmission / gearbox repair and replacement business. I'm always amazed at the modifications people make to what's being driven and then are amazed the the gearbox has some crappy lifecycle. Honda can and does build machines that can handle larger wheels and tires, I'm just not convinced that it's the Pioneer 1000...

 

[CumminsPusher]

Not claiming to be an expert on the clutch issues, but if you make some very significant drive train modification and then find the weak link, don't be shocked. The OEM can't possibly design for any and every possible modification... Just a wild guess, but I'm betting the clutch design was based on OEM size tires with some safety factor - probably 1.5 to 2.0 SF.

I do believe in having a weak link and right now it is replaceable. I'd understand beefing them up a little but if things get too strong other more expensive things will break. So I guess if anything that's the positive. Anyone who's built something understands this. What sucks though is to say there isn't a problem because this is the first time I've seen multiple people have the same problems from Honda especially at low miles. Even if it is the way people are driving it shouldn't be, it never was before imo


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[AKRider]

I do believe in having a weak link and right now it is replaceable. I'd understand beefing them up a little but if things get too strong other more expensive things will break. So I guess if anything that's the positive. Anyone who's built something understands this. What sucks though is to say there isn't a problem because this is the first time I've seen multiple people have the same problems from Honda especially at low miles. Even if it is the way people are driving it shouldn't be, it never was before imo


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That's what gets me. Anyone should be able to get behind the wheel and drive these machines, whatever their riding and driving style is. Grandma and Grandpa should be able to putt around, slow and steady, in auto, without a problem. We should be able to slowly back up a hill without worrying about burning up the clutches.

Now of course, if you really beat on the machine things are going to break. That's a given.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I don't want to beat this one into the ground but I've owned a lot of Honda's and I've ridden hard all my life we've always been hard on things there's a reason I've always stuck with Honda and this is the first time in my life with Honda that I feel I have to baby It in some ways, there are people that come up with us that are scared to ride it and I always have to give instructions that sucks. I really do like the transmission with gears I don't want to ever go back but I feel I have to baby in the same ways that I did with a Polaris belt. That's the truth it is what it is. Overall it's a much better vehicle you can't deny that but getting frustrated with people saying there isn't a clutch issue with person after person through here.

 

[AKRider]

I don't want to beat this one into the ground but I've owned a lot of Honda's and I've ridden hard all my life we've always been hard on things there's a reason I've always stuck with Honda and this is the first time in my life with Honda that I feel I have to baby It in some ways, there are people that come up with us that are scared to ride it and I always have to give instructions that sucks. I really do like the transmission with gears I don't want to ever go back but I feel I have to baby in the same ways that I did with a Polaris belt. That's the truth it is what it is. Overall it's a much better vehicle you can't deny that but getting frustrated with people saying there isn't a clutch issue with person after person through here.

Boom! Mic drop!!

 

[wilson111]

Clutch failure due to larger tires, etc is somewhat understandable but there have been a number of people with clutch problems running factory tires, etc. I don't think clutch failure is entirely due to driving style bc I've got around 750 miles and have stalled it several times without clutch failure and then some people stall once in reverse and have clutch failure. Not saying mine won't fail...just hoping it doesn't do it when out riding hours away from the trailer. I def think there's more to it just waiting on something to surface that is based on facts.

 

[Delton]

I don't understand the randomness of the failures. I abused mine pretty hard couple days ago. It wasn't the first time,not by a long shot. I don't try for smooth takeoffs either. Gun it and go. I'm even worse in reverse. As random as the problems are, it's hard to point a finger at one thing. But I still believe riding style improves your chances.

 

[AKRider]

I don't understand the randomness of the failures. I abused mine pretty hard couple days ago. It wasn't the first time,not by a long shot. I don't try for smooth takeoffs either. Gun it and go. I'm even worse in reverse. As random as the problems are, it's hard to point a finger at one thing. But I still believe riding style improves your chances.

I think your style is what's keeping you from having problems. Get the RPMs up quick and your good. Feather it too much and that might be the problem.

 

[CumminsPusher]

The randomness has nothing to do with the clutches themselves. It's an internal problem with oil pressures effecting the clamping of the clutches and in turn giving way to premature failure. That's flat out my opinion. Some may be hard and causing them to go out but I've owned two now with a total different feel. My red one was so solid I wish I still had that transmission. The white has never clamped as good period. I was harder on my previous on with more miles and it was more solid then then my new one when new. I got one with an issue this time. We never had to worry previously. I can probably say with good certainty that most don't push as hard as I did the red one or have something to compare it too. I hate saying this but it's my honest opinion and I don't kitty foot around things. However I'm just going to leave it at that and I don't mean to rag on the rig because I truly love it but now w I carry spare tools so I can change on the trail. It shouldn't be that way


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[Delton]

The randomness has nothing to do with the clutches themselves. It's an internal problem with oil pressures effecting the clamping of the clutches and in turn giving way to premature failure. That's flat out my opinion. Some may be hard and causing them to go out but I've owned two now with a total different feel. My red one was so solid I wish I still had that transmission. The white has never clamped as good period. I was harder on my previous on with more miles and it was more solid then then my new one when new. I got one with an issue this time. We never had to worry previously. I can probably say with good certainty that most don't push as hard as I did the red one or have something to compare it too. I hate saying this but it's my honest opinion and I don't kitty foot around things.


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I've said this many times on here, but if honda had used a centrifugal clutch on primary gear and a single wet clutch, the p1k would be the most perfect sxs ever built. As it is, as you mentioned, hydraulic pressure is keeping it clamped instead of springs. But it is what it is. Wishing ain't gonna get me anywhere

 

[CumminsPusher]

I've said this many times on here, but if honda had used a centrifugal clutch on primary gear and a single wet clutch, the p1k would be the most perfect sxs ever built. As it is, as you mentioned, hydraulic pressure is keeping it clamped instead of springs. But it is what it is. Wishing ain't gonna get me anywhere

It's a good system but there's something amiss and I'd like to get mine as solid as others. It's not my driving anymore. I know what kills them as good as anyone and I don't do that.


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[snuffnwhisky]

Is there an oil port to check the pressure on the clutch? Any specs in the manual?

 

[Delton]

Is there an oil port to check the pressure on the clutch? Any specs in the manual?

I haven't really studied it alot. I know it mentions a port they recommend blowing out with compressed air before reassembly.