P700 Camshaft replacement help

[DRZRon1]

Thanks for the reply. Do these things have a VIN number? If so, where is it located? I have a pic of some info I found but nothing that looks like a VIN number.

View attachment 407937

no clue - shouldn't matter for ordering parts

 

[NTCPrezJB]

Thanks for the reply. Do these things have a VIN number? If so, where is it located? I have a pic of some info I found but nothing that looks like a VIN number.

View attachment 407937

I can’t tell you for sure where it is but there will be a vin stamped on the frame somewhere.

 

[Muggster71]

I can’t tell you for sure where it is but there will be a vin stamped on the frame

my advice is to go on Ron ayers website - pump in your model info - there is a complete breakdown of every seal and gasket and part numbers

besides what you listed above of course all the gaskets to rebuild the top and valve seals would be on my list.

Ok, so I downloaded the service manual and this looks like a pretty complicated job but service manuals tend to do that. I’m gonna go with a new camshaft, followers, gaskets, o rings and sealing washers and hope the rest is ok. The machine has 2,020 miles/570 hours on it so the damn thing shouldn’t be worn out too bad, but….I don’t know what worn cam lobes will do to an engine either, as far as what kinds of problems it will cause with the valve stem assemblies, etc. I’m in over my head but it won’t be the first time.

 

[DRZRon1]

Ok, so I downloaded the service manual and this looks like a pretty complicated job but service manuals tend to do that. I’m gonna go with a new camshaft, followers, gaskets, o rings and sealing washers and hope the rest is ok. The machine has 2,020 miles/570 hours on it so the damn thing shouldn’t be worn out too bad, but….I don’t know what worn cam lobes will do to an engine either, as far as what kinds of problems it will cause with the valve stem assemblies, etc. I’m in over my head but it won’t be the first time.

no you are not in too deep - u r taking it on, the parts slapper at the dealership knows less in most cases

get the mud off, cup of coffee, patience, read the manual, youtube a little - self education and it usually goes just fine

 

[Mopower58]

Ok, so I downloaded the service manual and this looks like a pretty complicated job but service manuals tend to do that. I’m gonna go with a new camshaft, followers, gaskets, o rings and sealing washers and hope the rest is ok. The machine has 2,020 miles/570 hours on it so the damn thing shouldn’t be worn out too bad, but….I don’t know what worn cam lobes will do to an engine either, as far as what kinds of problems it will cause with the valve stem assemblies, etc. I’m in over my head but it won’t be the first time.

Camshaft failure will deposit small pieces of metal in the oil. Make sure you change the oil and filter. Shouldn't bother the valves.

 

[Muggster71]

no you are not in too deep - u r taking it on, the parts slapper at the dealership knows less in most cases

get the mud off, cup of coffee, patience, read the manual, youtube a little - self education and it usually goes just fine

Well, I got a little discouraged reading the manual because they were talking about all kinds of stuff that was not familiar to me and mentioning tools I don’t have nor ever heard of😆. This was mainly concerning the cylinder head, valves, lapping, and all that but hopefully none of that will be necessary. I’m still looking over the service manual which I downloaded to my phone which I’m sure you know , isn’t nearly as good as a paper service manual with greasy fingerprints all over it. I’m good with tools and decent with automobiles, atv, small engine stuff but motors and transmissions I don’t fool with much. I’ve replaced the rack and pinion on that thing and it was a pretty complicated job, as was the starter which was nearly impossible to get to. Changing the oil isn’t much fun either but I think this cam shaft may not be too bad actually because you gotta take a bunch of stuff off and out of the way. I don’t think I need to disassemble the valves but all that will become apparent soon enough.

 

[Muggster71]

Camshaft failure will deposit small pieces of metal in the oil. Make sure you change the oil and filter. Shouldn't bother the valves.

Thanks for that info.

 

[Mopower58]

The are plenty of Japanese EFI cars that have valve adjustments as maintenance.
@Farmer also had a lightly used machine with the issue. It goes all the way back to the Rincon. Again, it'd be nice to know why it happens. Honda has never said, and probably never will.

Automotive hydraulic flat tappet cams have had trouble for the last few years of wearing the lobes down, especially if not broken in properly. Synthetic oil has properties in it that would help alleviate this problem. In the past I've had automotive roller cams with an extreme amount of spring pressure and no problems.

 

[Muggster71]

I can’t tell you for sure where it is but there will be a vin stamped on the frame somewhere.

I just ran across that information and will post a pic for future reference.

 

[Mopower58]

Synthetic oils have more PPM (part per million) amounts of zinc which aids in the elemination of metal to metal wear. Moly also helps metal to metal wear.

 

[Muggster71]

Camshaft failure will deposit small pieces of metal in the oil. Make sure you change the oil and filter. Shouldn't bother the valves.

So, I’ve had the day off and have been researching this pretty much all day. Couple (or more) questions. I’m a little concerned about the oil take up screens and am leaning on this being a major issue with these cam failures but can’t find much information pertaining to that. I’d rather not pull the engine and split the crank case unnecessarily so I’m leaning towards an oil pressure check….before I start tearing it apart. First question is: Will some sort of engine flushing technique clean up the screens? Sea foam or kerosene or?? I’ve read that some people have found clutch fibers in the oil screens and am assuming that nothing will clean that except manual cleaning. The thing is that I have never noticed any sort of clutch slippage or anything like that so I’m leaning towards something like seafoam or kerosene to flush the engine and oil screens. Other question is do I drain the oil before I start this cam replacement process? I’ve read that I need to drain the coolant but haven’t seen anything about the oil. I am assuming that I would but you never know. Thanks for any advice.

 

[Mopower58]

So, I’ve had the day off and have been researching this pretty much all day. Couple (or more) questions. I’m a little concerned about the oil take up screens and am leaning on this being a major issue with these cam failures but can’t find much information pertaining to that. I’d rather not pull the engine and split the crank case unnecessarily so I’m leaning towards an oil pressure check….before I start tearing it apart. First question is: Will some sort of engine flushing technique clean up the screens? Sea foam or kerosene or?? I’ve read that some people have found clutch fibers in the oil screens and am assuming that nothing will clean that except manual cleaning. The thing is that I have never noticed any sort of clutch slippage or anything like that so I’m leaning towards something like seafoam or kerosene to flush the engine and oil screens. Other question is do I drain the oil before I start this cam replacement process? I’ve read that I need to drain the coolant but haven’t seen anything about the oil. I am assuming that I would but you never know. Thanks for any advice.

I would have to defer that question to @HondaTech as he knows way more about Small Honda's and their unique quirks. I worked on fast cars and diesel trucks during my years. I would say that I've never heard of the oil screen becoming clogged from a camshaft failure. I hear about those more on the Pioneer 1000 early on when they were having clutch trouble.

 

[Muggster71]

I would have to defer that question to @HondaTech as he knows way more about Small Honda's and their unique quirks. I worked on fast cars and diesel trucks during my years. I would say that I've never heard of the oil screen becoming clogged from a camshaft failure. I hear about those more on the Pioneer 1000 early on when they were having clutch trouble.

Thanks for the reply, honda tech is a great resource here no doubt. I’m kinda flyin blind here so all comments and advice are appreciated.

 

[Mopower58]

Thanks for the reply, honda tech is a great resource here no doubt. I’m kinda flyin blind here so all comments and advice are appreciated.

He works at a dealer and has a lot of experience. I know just enough to be dangerous. 😂😂

 

[NTCPrezJB]

So, I’ve had the day off and have been researching this pretty much all day. Couple (or more) questions. I’m a little concerned about the oil take up screens and am leaning on this being a major issue with these cam failures but can’t find much information pertaining to that. I’d rather not pull the engine and split the crank case unnecessarily so I’m leaning towards an oil pressure check….before I start tearing it apart. First question is: Will some sort of engine flushing technique clean up the screens? Sea foam or kerosene or?? I’ve read that some people have found clutch fibers in the oil screens and am assuming that nothing will clean that except manual cleaning. The thing is that I have never noticed any sort of clutch slippage or anything like that so I’m leaning towards something like seafoam or kerosene to flush the engine and oil screens. Other question is do I drain the oil before I start this cam replacement process? I’ve read that I need to drain the coolant but haven’t seen anything about the oil. I am assuming that I would but you never know. Thanks for any advice.

The Pioneer 700 has an automotive style 3 speed transmission. I thought the big red 700 was the predecessor to it and had the same motor/transmission in it.

I think the clutch material in the pickup screen you are referring to is from Pioneer 1000 related threads. Those have a DTC or dual clutch transmission which is effectively a manual transmission with electronic engagement.

I could be completely wrong about the big red 700 here but hopefully someone that knows for sure can step in and clear it up for you.

 

[DRZRon1]

check your other topic on this - post #8, an ingenious owner flushed his engine with gas, diesel, etc…… - didn’t split cases

 

[HondaTech]

The Pioneer 700 has an automotive style 3 speed transmission. I thought the big red 700 was the predecessor to it and had the same motor/transmission in it.

I think the clutch material in the pickup screen you are referring to is from Pioneer 1000 related threads. Those have a DTC or dual clutch transmission which is effectively a manual transmission with electronic engagement.

I could be completely wrong about the big red 700 here but hopefully someone that knows for sure can step in and clear it up for you.

The 700 engine can clog the screen with clutch material as well. I just rebuilt a Pioneer 700 this year for that problem, but it had been under water several times.

But I've seen and rebuilt a few with clogged screens, sometimes what's clogging them doesn't appear to be clutch material.

 

[DG Rider]

Most cars have hydraulic lifters and don't need adjustments.

Thanks for that.

 

[Chuckt14]

Picked up a 700-4 recently
Had the flat cam lobe symptoms, set engine to tdc, pulled apart and found the camshaft like this.
is camshaft 180° off?
I know the larger line should be parallel with the casing

 

[HondaTech]

Picked up a 700-4 recently
Had the flat cam lobe symptoms, set engine to tdc, pulled apart and found the camshaft like this.
is camshaft 180° off?
I know the larger line should be parallel with the casing

View attachment 408028

Your on overlap, spin it 360 degrees and line the "T "mark up again. The line will be at the bottom then and it will be at TDC.

When your putting the machine back together, you can just put the new camshaft in with the line at the bottom and it will be fine. The engine doesn't care what "tdc" position the crank is in as long as the timing marks line up.