P1000 Did I make the right choice?

[Hometeam]

Yeah sorry this happened to you....I would not be happy if it was mine! I would also push for a machine replacement!
I still don't think you made the wrong decision. Anyone that has a major problem on anything they buy questions that. I keep going back to the number of problems and lack of taking care of them that other brands had/have. The P1000 is capable of being all the machine you want and bought it to be....there are a lot more out there with zero issues than ones with issues....Honda still has not denied warranty to any issue yet that we have heard of!! That is why you buy Honda because on the rare occasion that they have a goofy up, they have stood behind there product and fixed it. That's been my knowledge of them!!

 

[Admin]

 

[Stauvo]

Welcome to the club Cruddy0815!

I hope you get it all worked out quick and painless.

Have a great day!

 

[tundraman]

Unfortunately even good products will be defective at times. Honda will make it right but it will cost you some time and frustration. See if they will give you a loaner while they work on your bike. They do that with cars. Hopefully this is just an isolated problem and you will be back riding soon.

 

[Johnny_C]

Sorry to hear about your issues.

Hang in there.

John

 

[sugarray]

Why do you all think Honda needs to replace the whole machine? There is a single problem on a single part, granted a huge part. In no way should Honda give a whole new machine. They need to replace the engine completely, no repair and I wouldn't settle for anything less. I would wear them and the dealer out with phone calls, emails, reviews on FB and every forum if the engine wasn't replaced.

I'm sure sorry for your bad luck, hope it doesn't happen to me, but an engine swap is the appropriate thing.

 

[sthomp54]

Why do you all think Honda needs to replace the whole machine? There is a single problem on a single part, granted a huge part. In no way should Honda give a whole new machine. They need to replace the engine completely, no repair and I wouldn't settle for anything less. I would wear them and the dealer out with phone calls, emails, reviews on FB and every forum if the engine wasn't replaced.

I'm sure sorry for your bad luck, hope it doesn't happen to me, but an engine swap is the appropriate thing.

Well he did just spend $20k and it is sitting in the shop for who knows how long waiting on a motor. I think a new machine is reasonable to save face and get him on the trail asap. Honda is a big boy, they can take the hit on a new flagship product like this.

 

[sugarray]

Well he did just spend $20k and it is sitting in the shop for who knows how long waiting on a motor. I think a new machine is reasonable to save face and get him on the trail asap. Honda is a big boy, they can take the hit on a new flagship product like this.

Completely disagree.

If your engine had a leak on your new F150, would Ford give you a new truck. No, they'd fix the one you bought. Honda is no different. When a recall occurs do the manufacturers replace the whole unit, no they fix the part that needs fixing. Doesn't matter if you have paid $50 or $50,000. Honda needs to replace the engine ASAP, would it be nice to get another machine to ride, sure would be, but I don't think they will. If they step up, good for them, but if it's just the engine, it's all I'd hope for.

 

[sthomp54]

Completely disagree.

If your engine had a leak on your new F150, would Ford give you a new truck. No, they'd fix the one you bought. Honda is no different. When a recall occurs do the manufacturers replace the whole unit, no they fix the part that needs fixing. Doesn't matter if you have paid $50 or $50,000. Honda needs to replace the engine ASAP, would it be nice to get another machine to ride, sure would be, but I don't think they will. If they step up, good for them, but if it's just the engine, it's all I'd hope for.

If my F-150 with 25 miles on it needed a new motor then I would want a new truck as well. That or I would never own a Ford again and tell everyone of my experience... Plus, who knows what the dealership will mess up replacing the motor. Its up to the manufacturer to determine what their reputation is worth. They will just resell the repaired vehicle as used and take a hit. I seriously doubt there are many of these motors with a hole in the casting anyway...at least I hope not.

 

[Chooglin]

Plus, who knows what the dealership will mess up replacing the motor.

This is exactly why I would want a new machine . I would be willing to bet , after there monkey machanics replace the engine, it will be right back in the shop getting something fixed , that they screwed up !!!

 

[Westtnpioneer]

With only 25 miles they would be giving me a new ride whether it was a truck or a Pioneer. I would threaten lemon law.

 

[Gator]

I have to agree with the guys in favor of an entire machine.
If I buy a $20 item from Walmart and it doesn't work I expect them to exchange it. If I pay $20K...

If my new truck needed a motor I think Ford would issue a replacement. I would accept a new wheel, new A/C, new power steering, New rear end. But not a new motor or transmission.

Your dealer can't assemble a new motor into the pioneer and make it the same as factory installation. He doesn't have the same tools.

Give his name and phone number to everyone here on the forum. I bet just 4-5 phone calls pleading for an exchange would have an impact.

 

[walexa07]

Lemon laws don't work like that........

I'm with sugarray.........it would be great to get a whole new ride but honestly, just fixing the leaking engine is Honda's only responsibility. It would be great if they replace the engine, but they are not required to. I do think it would be great if they offered a loaner while whatever repair is being made, especially if it is going to take more than a week. Would I want a new engine or even a new machine - you bet, but that doesn't mean that is what Honda is required to do or should do.

I do wonder where this leak is - if it's on the subtransmission or any of the cases besides the main cases I would have no issues with just the faulty case being replaced - most of these are probably swappable with the engine still in the frame.

OP, can you describe where the leak was? Did you by any chance take any pics of where it is coming from?

Waylan

 

[ButchersHook]

Why do you all think Honda needs to replace the whole machine? There is a single problem on a single part, granted a huge part.

Start big, demand a new machine a settle for a NEW engine.

 

[PioneerPete]

you'll get your new engine some time around JuVember. I would demand to be back on the trail by the weekend... however that has to happen

 

[cruddy0815]

Update...Day 2 in the shop. Called American Honda customer service and they assigned a "case manager". After calling the dealer and talking to service today, then talking to Chad at American Honda, they are still undecided on how to handle this case. Honda claims would want to do the best thing for the customer, but according to Honda, there are NO crate engines for these machines. Each engine is VIN matched to the unit. So they don't know how to handle this. One way is repairing the engine, which I voiced I do not want. Dealer has 3 units (not deluxe but same engine and trans), and stated he would like to see Honda authorize and complete Engine and Trans swap, which is easier than just an engine swap according to him. This would allow him to get me my already paid for machine back to me within a couple days, then give Honda and the dealer time to properly rebuild as well as troubleshoot how this happened and prevent further issues all the while, I'm back on the trails happy to have made a purchase with such a 'reliable' company. HOWEVER, according to me recently appointed American Honda case manager, Honda protocol is to repair the broken engine, and parts are being sent to dealer as we speak. Dealer voiced his concern about this project, being that they have never rebuilt one of these new motors, and if they miss ordering say a gasket, or certain bolts, then the delay for repair keeps building up. I paid for the machine in full to the dealer (although I borrowed the check from my credit union), either way, the dealer and Honda got their money, and in return, I'm left with a broken down machine that Honda can't figure out the best way to get me back into. Give me a new machine or a new engine. Seems simple enough. But I understand why it isn't that simple with Honda not having any crate motors. Obviously this is turning into a way bigger issue than anyone, including the dealer, Honda and myself, ever anticipated happening. Frustrated and now thinking I made the wrong choice.......

 

[cruddy0815]

The only pics I have so far, are from the oil leaking down to the bottom of the motor. Dealer took lots of pics for Honda, which I'm hoping to get my hands on. From what I'm being told, the weak porous hole is in the main engine casing. Will update more as I find out more. Already updated above after talking to Dealer and American Honda today. I know they are trying to come up with a solution, just can't believe it isn't as easy as we all think. Dealer said he would rebuild as that's what Honda wants, but has reservationsome doing that. He felt more comfortable doing a full engine and trans swap as they are connected and easier to remove and replace that just the engine itself. However, because each unit is Vin matched to the motor, makes it difficult especially in the future should more service situations present themselves. Honda does NOT make crate motors for this unit. So until I hear otherwise, I'm just playing a waiting game. It also didn't set well with me when I asked the Honda Case Manager Chad to keep me posted daily, and his response was "well, I may not be able to call you every day, but I will at least call you every other day." Great customer service....forgive me for being upset. I know I have a lot of die hard Honda fans here, but so far, I'm having a difficult time becoming one. Think I just need some sleep, and see how things pan out.

 

[ButchersHook]

You made a great point, they got there money. You didnt get a machine. Not surprised that there are not 1000 Pioneer engines floating @, and that they are waiting for Honda approval to pull engine and tranny out of a new machine and put into yours. Like you stated its "turning into a way bigger issue than anyone, including the dealer, Honda and myself, ever anticipated happening" Its not your dealers fault, his arms are tied. He sold a machine "probably" never expecting to see you again. 100% Honda fault..now make it good. The dealer is your worst enemy but in this circumstance he should be your best friend fighting this with you.

 

[McPioneer]

Update...Day 2 in the shop. Called American Honda customer service and they assigned a "case manager". After calling the dealer and talking to service today, then talking to Chad at American Honda, they are still undecided on how to handle this case. Honda claims would want to do the best thing for the customer, but according to Honda, there are NO crate engines for these machines. Each engine is VIN matched to the unit. So they don't know how to handle this. One way is repairing the engine, which I voiced I do not want. Dealer has 3 units (not deluxe but same engine and trans), and stated he would like to see Honda authorize and complete Engine and Trans swap, which is easier than just an engine swap according to him. This would allow him to get me my already paid for machine back to me within a couple days, then give Honda and the dealer time to properly rebuild as well as troubleshoot how this happened and prevent further issues all the while, I'm back on the trails happy to have made a purchase with such a 'reliable' company. HOWEVER, according to me recently appointed American Honda case manager, Honda protocol is to repair the broken engine, and parts are being sent to dealer as we speak. Dealer voiced his concern about this project, being that they have never rebuilt one of these new motors, and if they miss ordering say a gasket, or certain bolts, then the delay for repair keeps building up. I paid for the machine in full to the dealer (although I borrowed the check from my credit union), either way, the dealer and Honda got their money, and in return, I'm left with a broken down machine that Honda can't figure out the best way to get me back into. Give me a new machine or a new engine. Seems simple enough. But I understand why it isn't that simple with Honda not having any crate motors. Obviously this is turning into a way bigger issue than anyone, including the dealer, Honda and myself, ever anticipated happening. Frustrated and now thinking I made the wrong choice.......

I would put your concerns in an email, get them to reply in writing that the dealer is able to replace or repair the engine in the same manner that it is installed or assembled at the factory. I would also raise concerns that if they change out the engine with a different one that you will be at a disadvantage financially due to the serial numbers not matching. If you had the choice of two machines with the same mileage and condition, which one are you going to buy. Honda would not loose any money in giving you a new machine, the profit they have already made on your machine together with the cost price of a new machine would not put them in the red. They will be able to sell the machine to someone and still make a profit overall.

I had an issue with my car last year, it had a rattle in the dash, sounds petty but I use it for work and it was driving me insane. I would not settle for the dealership to take the whole dash out as they could not guarantee that they could torque all of the bolts and screws like they do in the factory. Also that they could not guarantee that all the clips were designed to be reused. They also said that some of the bolts were installed by the robotic arms due to the angles and they would not be able to physically torque the bolts to specs. I asked for a specific scope of work and what all the torque ratings on the bolts and screws would be. They were unable to provide me this in writing. I had a lot of back and forth but eventually after months they gave me a new car, not only that but it was the next model year that has been updated. All at no cost to me.

If your machine was a year old and had an issue I could possibly understnd but since it's pretty much new they should replace the pioneer, to say that you are only owed an engine is ridiculous . You bought a new machine that had a flaw direct from the factory, it should never of passed their QC and now they are expecting you to roll the dice on the dealer. There should be something in the manual about arbitration if you are not in agreeance to their solution.

I honestly do not believe that anyone in your position would accept that the dealer would repair or replace the motor on a brand new machine. If you bought a Honda lawnmower and returned it after a week due to the same issue, would you expect them to replace the motor or just give you a new mower. Please don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of. I would not retain a lawyer just yet or make any threats because you will catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar, just put your concerns to them, I'm sure Honda will do the right thing. The main point is that honda will not be at a loss if they simply send you a new machine.

 

[ButchersHook]

You bought a new machine that had a flaw direct from the factory, it should never of passed their QC and now they are expecting you to roll the dice on the dealer. There should be something in the manual about arbitration if you are not in agreeance to their solution.

McPioneer one of the best replys on this forum. This is not a case of 100's of miles of use and abuse or mudding or trail ridding and haveing a flaw. This is a direct assembly/manufacturing error. Like you said this should have never passed QC to begin with.

Why is it that a previous Polaris Ranger owner buys a Honda and now has issues!!.

 

[ghost]

McPioneer one of the best replys on this forum. This is not a case of 100's of miles of use and abuse or mudding or trail ridding and haveing a flaw. This is a direct assembly/manufacturing error. Like you said this should have never passed QC to begin with.

Why is it that a previous Polaris Ranger owner buys a Honda and now has issues!!.

Yup - this did not even occur with regular use - regular use breakages are what warranties are for. This was defective before it left the plant.
I agree with starting a paper trail. Wouldn't hurt to mention the discussion on this forum.
It wouldn't take me long before I started asking for my money back too. You only had the thing for a couple hours before the dealer opened again (i think). You paid for a brand new working machine - so far they have not delivered.

I don't think you make a mistake in your purchase. It sucks that you ended up in this mess - it could happen to anyone. But your decision was sound and if Honda does their part, you'll have a working machine in short order.