Front and rear diffs on the 500 and 700

Alan_Vander

Alan_Vander

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So i know the gearing is different the 500 being lower geared than the 700. Has anyone a tech worked on both diffs before and had the opportunity to see if the ring and pinion could be swapped?

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Alan_Vander

Alan_Vander

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I feel like this has been discussed already and given a big NOPE.
I know a couple months ago someone was talking about the complete diffs but would need a inner cup frankenstein axles. But i met a guy earlier said the front ring bolted up. But im skeptical.

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H

HondaTech

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Digging through the parts diagrams the 700 an 500 share multiple parts in the rear diff:

Left side half of differential
Inner axle cup (which means the ring has the same splines)
Ring bearings
Output coupler/seals

The output bearing shows to be a different part number, bu the reference numbers in the descriptions show them to be the same size?

Seems to me you could potentially swap the ring/pinion for different gearing. I suppose they wont just drop in as a full assembly do to difference in mounts and potentially size.

I'll look at the front and see whats up there as well.

These part similarities are all referencing 2020 models of both the 500 and 700.
 
Alan_Vander

Alan_Vander

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Mar 19, 2019
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  1. 700-4
Digging through the parts diagrams the 700 an 500 share multiple parts in the rear diff:

Left side half of differential
Inner axle cup (which means the ring has the same splines)
Ring bearings
Output coupler/seals

The output bearing shows to be a different part number, bu the reference numbers in the descriptions show them to be the same size?

Seems to me you could potentially swap the ring/pinion for different gearing. I suppose they wont just drop in as a full assembly do to difference in mounts and potentially size.

I'll look at the front and see whats up there as well.

These part similarities are all referencing 2020 models of both the 500 and 700.
Thanks cause if they are a swap. For us mudders thats a game changer. 17-18% reduction.

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I

ike775

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Any updates with the 500 diff on a 700? Id like that better than ordering 15% portals.
 
Alan_Vander

Alan_Vander

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Any updates with the 500 diff on a 700? Id like that better than ordering 15% portals.
you the one i was talking to on youtube?. still not sure if you can swap internals but there has been the full diff swaps.

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ike775

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you the one i was talking to on youtube?. still not sure if you can swap internals but there has been the full diff swaps.

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Yes that’s me on YouTube, I’ll keep searching see what this is al about. If it works I won’t need new wheels to fit portals.
 
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ike775

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Yes that’s me on YouTube, I’ll keep searching see what this is al about. If it works I won’t need new wheels to fit portals.
[/QUOTE
Yes that’s me on YouTube, I’ll keep searching see what this is al about. If it works I won’t need new wheels to fit portals.
you the one i was talking to on youtube?. still not sure if you can swap internals but there has been the full diff swaps.

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Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I wish I would have gone 1000 with the low gear. First machine I have owned and wish I had a low gear. I am trying to bandaid the problem best I can.
 
Alan_Vander

Alan_Vander

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Yes that’s me on YouTube, I’ll keep searching see what this is al about. If it works I won’t need new wheels to fit portals.
if your just going to run 27s or 28s i wouldnt go portals itll be overkill. too much more stress on ball joints just to pull small tires easier. its alot cheaper to go with the diffs. than to do the portals . mainly if your trying to keep same tires. youll be saving 1k-1.5k just from that.

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Alan_Vander

Alan_Vander

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eh the 1000 is better low range but im probably gonna get shunned for this . but the 1000 transmission in my mind isnt double what the 700 is. for me to see the motor difference in power and there has been more transmission problems from the 1000 than the 700. especially if your doing the good thick mud riding. youll dominate with a set of 27s or 28s with 500 diffs. and not have to worry about slipping a clutch from a dead stop in thick mud like the 1000s do.

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ike775

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I ride two track I am in the desert so no mudding log trails and some rutted stuff in the sierras. I get too steep hills and run out of power half way through the hill.
 
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Alan_Vander

Alan_Vander

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I ride two track I am in the desert so no mudding log trails and some rutted stuff in the sierras. I get too steep hills and run out of power half way through the hill.
oh yeah the 500 diffs would do you good. the 1000 would definitely be ideal for you if you have wide open tracks where you could cruise at 40 . if your topping at 43 on dash right now. that should be 46 with 27s on gps. with 500 diffs that would put you at right at 37 top speed on gps.43 on dash and it wont make you more top heavy for the mountains

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Alan_Vander

Alan_Vander

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front and rear. its pretty easy swap out. could be done in a few hrs id guess 4-6 hrs depending with just 1 person in a front yard with a regular ole socket set. front is straight forward the rear might be a little harder. because of the hole needing drilled.

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DG Rider

DG Rider

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I wondered about this shortly after the 500 came out. The way to do this, IMO, is to swap the ring/pinions...NOT the whole diff. The front 500 diff is missing the extension housing on the right where the diff lock mechanism lives (making you wonder why the 500 doesn't have a diff lock, but that's another post).
The other issue is the lack or a rear wheel speed sensor hole on the 500. Which leads me to a question for @HondaTech...
Digging through the parts diagrams the 700 an 500 share multiple parts in the rear diff:

Left side half of differential
Inner axle cup (which means the ring has the same splines)
Ring bearings
Output coupler/seals

The output bearing shows to be a different part number, bu the reference numbers in the descriptions show them to be the same size?

Seems to me you could potentially swap the ring/pinion for different gearing. I suppose they wont just drop in as a full assembly do to difference in mounts and potentially size.

I'll look at the front and see whats up there as well.

These part similarities are all referencing 2020 models of both the 500 and 700.
...where is the tone ring for the rear speed sensor on the 700? Made into the ring and pinions? If so, I doubt it's there on the 500, since it doesn't use it, which kills the whole thing.

Also, suppose we get it to work. How does the ecm react to higher rpm vs speed? Does it flip out and go into limp? Deluxe guys can simply go full manual I suspect...but is that why you bought an auto? (Keep it down 500 guys...)

These are all reasons I suspect this has never been done thus far. Back when I 1st wondered about this, it was going to be like $1200 in parts for something that had no guarantee of working. Now you can probably find them cheap enough used to take the risk...if you're a hardcore mud guy.
 
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Alan_Vander

Alan_Vander

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Mar 19, 2019
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  1. 700-4
I wondered about this shortly after the 500 came out. The way to do this, IMO, is to swap the ring/pinions...NOT the whole diff. The front 500 diff is missing the extension housing on the right where the diff lock mechanism lives (making you wonder why the 500 doesn't have a diff lock, but that's another post).
The other issue is the lack or a rear wheel speed sensor hole on the 500. Which leads me to a question for @HondaTech...

...where is the tone ring for the rear speed sensor on the 700? Made into the ring and pinions? If so, I doubt it's there on the 500, since it doesn't use it, which kills the whole thing.

Also, suppose we get it to work. How does the ecm react to higher rpm vs speed? Does it flip out and go into limp? Deluxe guys can simply go full manual I suspect...but is that why you bought an auto? (Keep it down 500 guys...)

These are all reasons I suspect this has never been done this far. Back when I 1st wondered about this, it was going to be like $1200 in parts for something that had no guarantee of working. Now you can probably find them cheap enough used to take the risk...if you're a hardcore mud guy.
there has been a few do the whole thing. the locker on the 700 bolts tot he side of the 500 diff. and im not sure about the speed thing on the rear diff. i know the guy made a post a while back about drilling out and putting the speed sensor i just cant remember. where. my guess is a speeddrd was needed to correct speed to get it to shift right. the guy never got back to me on it. but hes on portals and diffs. so the speed would be way off to begin with. i know he had the diff being drilled but that was about the only picture
i wish someone would do a write up. im planning on it once i get further ahead. if anything ill have a cheap replacement diff for a 500 for sale afterwards. but i think i was looking at 2200 for both full diffs. which is the route id try and also see if the internals could be swapped while i was at it. even if it does cost and extra bearing. id like for the information to be out there.

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Alan_Vander

Alan_Vander

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Mar 19, 2019
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rosepine,la
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  1. 700-4
i think the shift points would be off a little bit but it would put you at 34mph vs 43 on stock tires
give or take a mph. so i guess you would need a speed drd to correct . but im not totally sure cause im not sure if the 14 has a limp mode. so i guess id need someone else afterwards to do it . im thinking you could get a true speed reading but the rev limiter would hit in 3rd gear. cause at the lower speeds i dont think youd be able to romp on it but then again im not sure how the shift points are aligned is it off speed vs rpm or only speed and throttle input. cause i know i can romp on mine and itll shift out to 2nd at like 15 or 18 give or take or ease on it and shift around 8-10 mph. thats enough to make me think that if the 500 diffs did throw it off i still think the auto would shift right but you probably dont want to hold it to thw floor till its in 3rd gear. there is alot to think about in it. but hopefully by the end of this yr ill have all the answers for it.

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