Gear reduction?

[Manly bug]

I'm new to the SXS world, and have not been able to find a lot of after-market manufacturers offering things such as lower gearing for the pioneer. I personally think the gearing could be cut in half... Most of the trails I do are very steep and slow, so I'm not concerned about top speed (25-30 is fine).

Does anyone know how we can make the pioneer into more of a crawler? Part of what attracted me to the vehicle were its great dimensions-approach, departure and break over... But I don't like feeling like I might not have enough power to get up a hill with me and my family! (We are not big; I'm 6'0" 180lbs, wife is 130lbs, kids are about 35lb each)

 

[Admin]

 

[Hondasxs]

Manufactures may be slow bringing items to the table. They are worried that it may bust like the BR.
As for gearing, you should have plenty of power. I do not think there will ever be a reduction. But you never know, these independent shops turn new things out all the time.

 

[Jerry3]

Not sure about the gear reduction, but as Hondasxs said, power is not an issue, I took my Dad up over a really steep trail and I had way more power than I needed. We are both 200+ lbs. The trail was straight up the side of a mountain following a powerline, Our new atv test trail lol. So, dont worry about the pioneer having a lack of power.

 

[ohanacreek]

Ive got prob 20lbs on you and hauled a 500lb sprayer all day today in the bed, controlled burn on our land. At some points I was pulling a 6x12 trailer loaded with @1000lb of wood. She lugged a bit but pulled it up and down hills.

Not sure how steep of hills you're talking about.

 

[Manly bug]

I'm talking steeeeeeeep. Where you see sky over your hood. And the pioneer was seriously struggling. But... It did make it. I guess I will complain if/when it doesn't make it!

 

[ohanacreek]

Ok steeper than I was thinking. I can see it "struggling", I usually remedy that and get some revs in it, you are in the power range, torque converter locks and there's more power getting to the ground and less slipping. I wouldn't take that strategy with little ones riding along though.

 

[DG Rider]

And the pioneer was seriously struggling. But...

How so?
Bogging down in 1st?
Spinning?
I hear such differing accounts of this machine as to make me scratch my head...

There were/are gear reduction kits for the Rincon which uses the same drive-train. When the Big Red came out ( also using the same DT ), it also had lower gearing than the Rincon, so the hot ticket was then using factory BR gears in the Rincon. I don't know if any of the pre-BR gear reduction kits were lower ratio than the factory BR/Pioneer gears, but if they were, that would be a reduction...albeit, with a lot of work to swap them.

Also, keep in mind that your machine will never shift right again with them. The PCM uses speed to help determine shift points, and after swapping gears the speedo/RPM ratio it sees might cause it to freak. The Rincon has ESP, so those guys could just shift for themselves and avoid this issue. No such option for the Pioneer...unless aftermarket comes up with something.

The aftermarket may also come out with Pioneer gears. Just depends on how many "mudders" demand it. Rincon owners...please don't be offended by what i am about to say, but...
It may take a while for the gear demand...due to the rep this drive-train has. While there are plenty of highly capable hardcore mud Rincons, the machine has a reputation in certain circles as being non-competitive for the mud set with big tires. Certainly more hassle to set up for it than some other ATV's. I expect the Pioneer to viewed in the same way. Both the Rincon and Pioneer...on stock tires...on the trails they were intended for, are awesome machines, but there are easier choices for mud, and that may slow any gears that may show up.

EDIT: Manly...i just looked at some of your posts, and i believe you posted the review on the FJ forums, correct? As i recall, you were somewhere WAY up high in Colorado...and that certainly doesn't help the power thing.

 

[Manly bug]

Yes, we were definitely at altitude, but that is the nature of wheeling in Colorado.

Bogging down in 1st is what the machine was doing. Like pedal in the floor, vehicle barely moving.

It's ok, mean it did get us up... I can learn to handle its limitations. It's still a great machine, I would just like it geared lower.

 

[DG Rider]

Yes, we were definitely at altitude, but that is the nature of wheeling in Colorado.

Bogging down in 1st is what the machine was doing. Like pedal in the floor, vehicle barely moving.

It's ok, mean it did get us up... I can learn to handle its limitations. It's still a great machine, I would just like it geared lower.

Have you checked the oil? Have you changed the oil to a different weight? How many miles?
This drive-train has proven to be sensitive to oil level and weight.

Yep. I am a mile high here in AZ, and you can definitely tell the power difference between here and sea-level Phoenix. Maybe a high-flow filter or fuel adder will get back some of that HP.

Check out High Lifter. If anybody makes lower gears, they will have it or know about it.

 

[Manly bug]

This was actually my first outing with the pioneer. Oil level is good, I did check this before we headed out.

We are headed on another trip tomorrow and I plan to post some pictures of the adventure either way.

I appreciate all the great feedback!

 

[DG Rider]

Maybe with break-in you will get satisfactory power levels. Honda's tend to be very tight and gain a lot of HP during this time.

Looking forward to those pics. We almost moved to Montrose recently...and we wanted Colorado when we move out west, but ended up in AZ. As luck would have it, AZ may be the best place to own a SxS/ATV. Street legal the thing and ride down main street waving at the police. Lots of trails too.

 

[Bugnbrian]

Hey DGRider,
Wish I could ride the roads legally here in Vilas. As long as I stay on back roads the deputies are fine but that could change in a minute/any minute and troopers are always a different story here. Just wondering though, what do you have to do to ride legally on the streets? Do you need tags, inspection stickers, turn signals and a horn, or is it like WV where you wear a DOT helmet, seat belts and roll over protection for side by sides, and you are supposed to use hand signals for turns? I really want to visit Arizona for some trail riding in the next couple years!!!
BugnBrian

 

[DG Rider]

Hey DGRider,
Wish I could ride the roads legally here in Vilas. As long as I stay on back roads the deputies are fine but that could change in a minute/any minute and troopers are always a different story here. Just wondering though, what do you have to do to ride legally on the streets? Do you need tags, inspection stickers, turn signals and a horn, or is it like WV where you wear a DOT helmet, seat belts and roll over protection for side by sides, and you are supposed to use hand signals for turns? I really want to visit Arizona for some trail riding in the next couple years!!!
BugnBrian

http://azstateparks.com/ohv/rules.html will tell you all you need to know.

Honestly, I've only added the brake light and tags/OHV decal and insurance. Of the riders i encounter, About 50/50 mix with mirror(s) and horn. Not hard to do on my Foreman...but i have actually stopped and talked to a LEO while out riding, and got not even a second glance. Seems very lax enforcement on anything but the Tag. In essence, it becomes a motorcycle as far a the law is concerned.

The big thing here is that riding is mostly on forest service roads, and they can range from graded dirt that a pass. car can drive over, to pure rock-gardens only modded vehicles with lockers can do. The law state that if you can drive a pass. car up it, you need the MC (Street legal) tag. Roads that don't meet that criteria, you only need a "RV" tag which is basically like a off road sticker else where. Private property requires nothing.

The trick is that you can use the various FS roads to link together...literally, hundreds of miles of riding.

The biggest headache by far was getting a title here. I lost my certificate of origin ( since it basically has no value in NC ), and you must have it to get an AZ title OR go bonded, which was a few hundred bucks. Can't get a new one from Honda, either.

As far as visiting to ride, i really don't know what you'd need to do. Hopefully the answer is in the link i gave.

 

[Bugnbrian]

Thanks DG, I will check out the info in the link. Good hearing from you. Make sure you give me a yell if you come back to visit NC, I will have you setup with plenty of ATVs and UTVs to trail ride on Stone Mtn. or that new trail they are always just about to open...actually I am hearing lots of folks say it is close now. Back to the original topic though, riding and camping in the desert somewhere in the Southwestern USA is one of the biggies on my bucket list, but, since only the good die young, I still have a little time.

 

[DG Rider]

Thanks DG, I will check out the info in the link. Good hearing from you. Make sure you give me a yell if you come back to visit NC, I will have you setup with plenty of ATVs and UTVs to trail ride on Stone Mtn. or that new trail they are always just about to open...actually I am hearing lots of folks say it is close now. Back to the original topic though, riding and camping in the desert somewhere in the Southwestern USA is one of the biggies on my bucket list, but, since only the good die young, I still have a little time.

As far as off roading...and public land use in general, it is literally another world out here. You almost never see a posted sign.