P700 Help please shifting problem

[Dylan23]

I have a Honda MUV 700 the pioneers cousin there isn’t much going on in that section of the forum so I wanted to ask it here. Out of the blue the other day my Honda started shifting weird it will go into 1st fine then while accelerating it will go all the way to the rev limiter then you let off the gas it will shift to 2nd and then same procedure for 3rd all the way to the rev limiter and let off then it will shift it makes it almost impossible to ride like this and I know something isn’t right anyone got any suggestions? I already checked and changed oil it’s to the 3rd line. Any help would be appreciated thanks

 

[Dylan23]

Anyone?

 

[DG Rider]

Anyone?

What you describe sounds a lot like the behaviour when cold or low on oil. Did you follow the procedure in the owners manual for checking it? It does make a difference in the level.
Other than that, I don't know. Maybe do and oil pressure test? Check battery connections and condition? Any check engine lights?

 

[Dylan23]

What you describe sounds a lot like the behaviour when cold or low on oil. Did you follow the procedure in the owners manual for checking it? It does make a difference in the level.
Other than that, I don't know. Maybe do and oil pressure test? Check battery connections and condition? Any check engine lights?

I checked oil to owner manual specs and also changed the oil, no check engine lights, checked battery it has dual batteries both show over 13 volts. Its about to drive me nuts wish there was a way I could manually changed the gears. Its odd because it cycles through the gears you just have to hit a "sweet" spot so to say for it to change and its terrible going up a hill. Do you know what actually tells the machine when to shift gears? Thanks for the reply!

 

[DG Rider]

I checked oil to owner manual specs and also changed the oil, no check engine lights, checked battery it has dual batteries both show over 13 volts. Its about to drive me nuts wish there was a way I could manually changed the gears. Its odd because it cycles through the gears you just have to hit a "sweet" spot so to say for it to change and its terrible going up a hill. Do you know what actually tells the machine when to shift gears? Thanks for the reply!

A guy here did a turbocharged pioneer (yes, that's correct) and spent some time on a Dyno. He said the shifting was RPM based, not speed based.
As a long shot, try disconnecting the batteries to force the ECU to relearn.

@HondaTech, you got anything?

 

[Dylan23]

A guy here did a turbocharged pioneer (yes, that's correct) and spent some time on a Dyno. He said the shifting was RPM based, not speed based.
As a long shot, try disconnecting the batteries to force the ECU to relearn.

@HondaTech, you got anything?

I unhooked them for probably 2 hours the other day hoping it would force it to relearn but same result. I would would it be possible to rig up a way to change gears manually?

 

[jwfirebird]

got to be more than rpm, it wouldn't know when you are taking it easy or anything, likely like a car that has map of different things to make the decision. could be any of those sensors though make it not know and no idea how to troubleshoot those

 

[Dylan23]

got to be more than rpm, it wouldn't know when you are taking it easy or anything, likely like a car that has map of different things to make the decision. could be any of those sensors though make it not know and no idea how to troubleshoot those

I dont really have a good idea of how to check all those sensors either. Its almost got to be one of them though, I forgot to mention it ran fine one day and the next is when it started doing this. I havent checked the plugs that go to the soleniods that shift the gears I guess they are next.

 

[HondaTech]

The Big Red and P700 as well as the P1K rely heavily on the correct oil pressure.

The only real way to troubleshoot one if these machines is to read oil pressure at the line, main trans, and the 3 clutches. That's the first step in troubleshooting those units. If no codes exist and the engine seems to be running correctly.

I had a Big Red a few a months back that was sporadic in shifting and had wildly varying oil pressure. We'd already replaced all the front cover orings and cleaned the passages there as well as tried a new converter. It worked for awhile then it went back to the same problem the guy originally brought it in for, no movement.

The oil pickup had gotten clogged with some sort of gunk and was causing the oil pump to starve at certain times.

Does the unit seem to have the ability to rev up in neutral or does it seem like the rpms dont get that high? The camshafts are known to wear and cause the engine to not be able to rev up all the way and it cant built oil pressure correctly to shift.

 

[Dylan23]

The Big Red and P700 as well as the P1K rely heavily on the correct oil pressure.

The only real way to troubleshoot one if these machines is to read oil pressure at the line, main trans, and the 3 clutches. That's the first step in troubleshooting those units. If no codes exist and the engine seems to be running correctly.

I had a Big Red a few a months back that was sporadic in shifting and had wildly varying oil pressure. We'd already replaced all the front cover orings and cleaned the passages there as well as tried a new converter. It worked for awhile then it went back to the same problem the guy originally brought it in for, no movement.

The oil pickup had gotten clogged with some sort of gunk and was causing the oil pump to starve at certain times.

Does the unit seem to have the ability to rev up in neutral or does it seem like the rpms dont get that high? The camshafts are known to wear and cause the engine to not be able to rev up all the way and it cant built oil pressure correctly to shift.

When I got home yesterday I put in neutral and reved on it and just like you said it will rev up about half way and then start cutting out. Sounds like I have a camshaft issue...are these hard to change out I have some mechanical ability but dont wanna bite off more than I can chew. Thanks HondaTech you hot the nail on the head with this one.

 

[HondaTech]

It's not a horrible job the camshaft is under the cylinder head. You'll need the head gasket and I recommend looking at the lifter buckets because there usually trashed as well.

Honda always recommended a full engine flush because of all the metal from the cam going through the engine.

 

[Dylan23]

It's not a horrible job the camshaft is under the cylinder head. You'll need the head gasket and I recommend looking at the lifter buckets because there usually trashed as well.

Honda always recommended a full engine flush because of all the metal from the cam going through the engine.

Is there a way to make sure that it in fact the camshaft for sure before you pull the head?

 

[HondaTech]

Is there a way to make sure that it in fact the camshaft for sure before you pull the head?

If the rev limit is low ita almost assuredly the cam, you could pull the valve adjusting caps and see if the rockers aren't moving as much as they should.

Also they'd would be super loose even at full lift, since the lobe isnt lifting it to the the original height.

 

[Russ989]

It's not a horrible job the camshaft is under the cylinder head. You'll need the head gasket and I recommend looking at the lifter buckets because there usually trashed as well.

Honda always recommended a full engine flush because of all the metal from the cam going through the engine.

Is that a common problem with the big red and 700?

 

[HondaTech]

Is that a common problem with the big red and 700?

I've never done a P700 cam, but have seen several Rincon engines with this problem and a few Big Reds. They also use to have chain tensioner problems as well, but I havent ran into one of those in a awhile.

 

[Russ989]

I've never done a P700 cam, but have seen several Rincon engines with this problem and a few Big Reds. They also use to have chain tensioner problems as well, but I havent ran into one of those in a awhile.

Good to know, I’m getting ready to do the 3rd oil change on my 700-4 and I’m switching to the 10w-30 Honda pro full synthetic. Thanks for the info.

 

[Dylan23]

If the rev limit is low ita almost assuredly the cam, you could pull the valve adjusting caps and see if the rockers aren't moving as much as they should.

Also they'd would be super loose even at full lift, since the lobe isnt lifting it to the the original height.

So this weekend I checked the valves, The exhaust and the intake valves were to tight to even fit the smallest filler gauge I had in, and they had no play in them. I doubled checked to make sure I was at TDC and I had the T from directly in line just like the manuel said. Does this make any sense? I thought for sure they would be loose? Thanks for all the info you have supplied we with so far!

 

[HondaTech]

So this weekend I checked the valves, The exhaust and the intake valves were to tight to even fit the smallest filler gauge I had in, and they had no play in them. I doubled checked to make sure I was at TDC and I had the T from directly in line just like the manuel said. Does this make any sense? I thought for sure they would be loose? Thanks for all the info you have supplied we with so far!

You could be 180 degree out on "overlap".

Try spinning the engine until the "T" lines up again and recheck, theres no reason that they would be tight.

 

[Dylan23]

You could be 180 degree out on "overlap".

Try spinning the engine until the "T" lines up again and recheck, theres no reason that they would be tight.

Ok I will try that this afternoon thanks

 

[Dylan23]

You could be 180 degree out on "overlap".

Try spinning the engine until the "T" lines up again and recheck, theres no reason that they would be tight.

Ok got home and did what you said sure enough thats what it was. I adjusted both sets of valves wasnt off by much at all. I then started it and it didnt want to idle that well wanted to cut off as long as you gave it a little gas would run so I said what the heck imma drive it and see what happens well it goes to shifting just like it is suppose to now! Would adjusting the valves cause this to suddely start shifting right? Also when I got back from testing it ran and idled but could tell it was struggling a little to stay at idle. So do I need to fine tune the valves or is there something else I can do to adjust the idle. Thanks!