P1000 Honda Pioneer 1000 Internal gear reduction

[jaybyrd]

If something is gonna fail dealing with the reduction it's gonna happen within the first several hours of riding. Like I said this is not a consumable part that has the potential to wear out faster than originally intended. The only part that has the potential to actually fail would be the drive gear because of it's two-part design. The clutch gear is made no differently than stock as far as strength is concerned. Warranty has not been a major issue to figure out thus far. All of the current customers running it have free replacement if something happens. That being said all of them have been installed by knowledgeable mechanics that have spoken to me personally or there has been an understanding established of the installers mechanical experience. I'll say again this is the early stages of the reduction, we are not in full-on production mode yet where things can happen down the line as far as the production process goes that can cause an issue with the reduction. Every one made has been thoroughly checked in every way as far as fitment and quality. You guys are putting the cart before the horse here especially for having "zero interest in the IGR" as one response mentioned. Think of this like a custom engine build, what kind of warranty is ever involved with something like that? Little to none. This is really no different, it's a custom engine modification that requires clearancing the cases and serious attention to detail of all aspects involved. This is not your average aftermarket "bolt-on" exhaust system that is no more than overpriced bent pipe which is priced several 100% over cost in order to cover future warranty related issues. Also this is in no way relates to a "backpack". I got on this forum to give you guys updates and answers as best as I can answer them at this point. Have I said anything about anybody placing orders or try to get buyers? No. This is the reason scooterchris got involved. I don't have a lot of extra time on my hands to sit on a forum and explain everything. He was the adverstisement/info side of it because I knew there would be all sorts of questions and concerns about the reduction. I also know that his departure from the venture left a lot of unanswered questions and gave a negative vibe to the whole deal. This is why I'm here. We will have a more "production" oriented warranty when that time comes. Until then this is the best I can do, I apologize if that is not good enough for some. Thanks.

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[ghost]

Thanks for that jaybyrd - I think that clears that air as to where your coming from. I appreciate you coming here to explain whats going on.

I'm definitely interested to see where this goes but I'm a bit nervous about it now. Maybe if I was closer ... face to face would help.

Anyway I'll be watching. Please keep us informed as things develop.

 

[Michigander]

No reason to take offense... My post was not meant to attack you or your company. I was simply stating that I am not interested in a IGR, not because I don't believe that it works, but because I don't want a slower machine up top. Also my dealership told me that anything that modifies the cases voids the warranty.

As far as the 90 day warranty, I guess I understand your point to an extent, but why push your product so hard as the cure all when it is not even in the full production phase then?

 

[Boomboom907]

If something is gonna fail dealing with the reduction it's gonna happen within the first several hours of riding. Like I said this is not a consumable part that has the potential to wear out faster than originally intended. The only part that has the potential to actually fail would be the drive gear because of it's two-part design. The clutch gear is made no differently than stock as far as strength is concerned. Warranty has not been a major issue to figure out thus far. All of the current customers running it have free replacement if something happens. That being said all of them have been installed by knowledgeable mechanics that have spoken to me personally or there has been an understanding established of the installers mechanical experience. I'll say again this is the early stages of the reduction, we are not in full-on production mode yet where things can happen down the line as far as the production process goes that can cause an issue with the reduction. Every one made has been thoroughly checked in every way as far as fitment and quality. You guys are putting the cart before the horse here especially for having "zero interest in the IGR" as one response mentioned. Think of this like a custom engine build, what kind of warranty is ever involved with something like that? Little to none. This is really no different, it's a custom engine modification that requires clearancing the cases and serious attention to detail of all aspects involved. This is not your average aftermarket "bolt-on" exhaust system that is no more than overpriced bent pipe which is priced several 100% over cost in order to cover future warranty related issues. Also this is in no way relates to a "backpack". I got on this forum to give you guys updates and answers as best as I can answer them at this point. Have I said anything about anybody placing orders or try to get buyers? No. This is the reason scooterchris got involved. I don't have a lot of extra time on my hands to sit on a forum and explain everything. He was the adverstisement/info side of it because I knew there would be all sorts of questions and concerns about the reduction. I also know that his departure from the venture left a lot of unanswered questions and gave a negative vibe to the whole deal. This is why I'm here. We will have a more "production" oriented warranty when that time comes. Until then this is the best I can do, I apologize if that is not good enough for some. Thanks.

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I'm not talking poorly about anything. All I'm saying is if you are so confident nothing will fail then why not offer a real warranty. 6 months, or a year or something. Especially if a dealer installs. If you have never had a problem then I don't see why that's a big deal.
Hell I would pay an additional 100 dollars for a lifetime or 10 year or something reasonable.

I'm very interested and I need lower gears. Everyone here on the forum all spent a lot of money on these rigs. 800 bucks isn't a whole lot in comparison to the rig pricetag. People are spending more money than that on suspension. I just find comfort in real warranties from companies that don't have a big reputation.

Again I meant no disrespect and if a some other guys have no problems for a year or so then that's all I'll need to be on board.

Warranties are good. You might be a great dude that takes care of a problem out of the warranty. I get the feeling if I called you after 95 days or 4 months you would take care of an issue. I just was stating I would rather have a longer warranty on a piece of paper.

Me personally, I am I warranty guy. I bought an extended warranty on my rig. I like coverage. I have insurance. I would have insurance even if I wasn't required to. It's an opinion, and I feel more comfortable getting my toes in the water knowing I have a contractual obligation for the manufacturer to make good on my purchase.

Again, i meant no disrespect and I do not want you leaving the forum. I want this to take off, but until other guys dive in I'm gonna wait. I'm excited to see this unfold, and I'll be watching with total support.

Again, I meant no disrespect and apologize. I didn't mean to imply any manner of insult. I don't doubt your craftsmanship in any way. I was just stating a personal opinion.

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[jaybyrd]

No reason to take offense... My post was not meant to attack you or your company. I was simply stating that I am not interested in a IGR, not because I don't believe that it works, but because I don't want a slower machine up top. Also my dealership told me that anything that modifies the cases voids the warranty.

As far as the 90 day warranty, I guess I understand your point to an extent, but why push your product so hard as the cure all when it is not even in the full production phase then?

No offense taken but it came across as you were insulted because of the fact you misunderstood my reasoning behind the dealer install only warranty. Even if a dealer has not installed the reduction they still have way more access to any needed information or parts concerning the machine itself than the customer. I don't believe I've said it was the "cure all" but yes I am confident that it will solve most clutch issues. If there is an understanding of how the clutches engage on these machines, which most people don't, you will understand how it can only have positive effects with the clutch issues. If anything has been pushed as far as advertisement it was because many people are looking for a "fix" from Honda. This was meant to get people's attention and let them know there is another way instead of just sitting around waiting for a fix along with gearing the machine for taller more aggressive tires like many people are wanting to do.

Well said, let us know about that module and if it's an option you'll be offering. I'm ready when you're ready to offer the total package. Not feeling good about piecing it together from different people.

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[jaybyrd]

I will admit that scooterchris may have been a little overzealous in his "pitching" the product and sale seeking. He was just very excited about it like everbody interested in these sorts of things. Like I've tried to explain this is a totally new product for the machine with no previous testing on prior models or anything of that nature. It's new to everybody, even me. The reasoning behind how it works and the method of creating it has been tested and proven on other machines yes but this actual design for the 1k is new. There is somewhat of a grey area there is the best way I know to put it.

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[joeymt33]

Hey @jaybyrd, are your intentions to offer the gear reduction and the module to correct the shift patterns as a package? It sure would be nice to get a total package from one guy. I'm still on the edge about getting one or not, I just want to make sure I don't have any of the shifting issues. I really want this to work and want one bad. I'll probably be a buyer in the next month or so.

Can you show me where you have explained some of the shifting issues? Or if you have not, could you go into it with a little more detail?

Also, PM if you want to swap phone numbers. I'm definitely wanting to talk about it some.

Thanks for hanging out here and clearing the mud.

 

[jaybyrd]

Yes joey that's the next phase of this process. To get the module installed and tested as well. The module is comparable to the reduction in that it's been tested and proven on other machines but not on the 1k. I'm also confident the current module or a different version of it will work fine, just gonna take a little time to get there.

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[jaybyrd]

The shifting issue is only in auto mode. The machine is revving through the gear faster and basically it bounces off the Rev limiter until you let out of the throttle slightly then it will shift. Pretty much anything less than just flat out flooring it the machine will shift normal, hence the "95%" throttle. Manual mode WOT just takes getting used to because we know how fast these machines rev through the lower gears stock, well imagine it reving 25% faster, gotta be fast with that paddle. It's all in the programming of the ecm and the shift points, the 25% increase in rpm vs. speed is too much for the ecm to compensate on it's own.

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[joeymt33]

Thank you, I understand now.

 

[PioneerPete]

Yes joey that's the next phase of this process. To get the module installed and tested as well. The module is comparable to the reduction in that it's been tested and proven on other machines but not on the 1k. I'm also confident the current module or a different version of it will work fine, just gonna take a little time to get there.

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sounds like @joeymt33 needs to help you figure out the shift module..! he's sorta developed a reputation as the "experimental development" guy on the forum... and all of us here in forumland thank him for it!
you guys should talk, and figure out what it would take to finish the IGR package... many of us here just waiting for the full package and a solid review from one of our own.

 

[Michigander]

That being said all of them have been installed by knowledgeable mechanics that have spoken to me personally or there has been an understanding established of the installers mechanical experience.

Like who?

You guys are putting the cart before the horse here.

Actually I'd say you are. Promoting, and selling it as hard as you have, before its even in its "production phase"

Think of this like a custom engine build, what kind of warranty is ever involved with something like that? Little to none. This is really no different, it's a custom engine modification that requires clearancing the cases and serious attention to detail of all aspects involved. This is not your average aftermarket "bolt-on" exhaust system that is no more than overpriced bent pipe which is priced several 100% over cost in order to cover future warranty related issues.

And yet your own marketing says to the contrary.... see below (also, the whole clearancing the cases, is done by your own team, not me lol)

I got on this forum to give you guys updates and answers as best as I can answer them at this point. Have I said anything about anybody placing orders or try to get buyers? No. This is the reason scooterchris got involved. I don't have a lot of extra time on my hands to sit on a forum and explain everything. He was the adverstisement/info side of it because I knew there would be all sorts of questions and concerns about the reduction.

Hard to have trust with your company when you don't as much as make sure your marketing team knows what they are even marketing...

Until then this is the best I can do, I apologize if that is not good enough for some. Thanks.

Well I guess its your best so...

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My comments above in BLACK

 

[jaybyrd]

@Michigander you sure show a lot of interest in downing every aspect of the IGR and this whole process for somebody that has "zero interest in the IGR". I think I've explained things pretty good. This whole deal is still in the early stages like I've said numerous times already. There is no "marketing team"..scooterchris was mainly trying to be a middleman in the process in an attempt to answer questions and give info without everyone having to come to me and me repeating myself over and over like I'm having to do here with you.

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[popeye]

@Michigander you sure show a lot of interest in downing every aspect of the IGR and this whole process for somebody that has "zero interest in the IGR". I think I've explained things pretty good. This whole deal is still in the early stages like I've said numerous times already. There is no "marketing team"..scooterchris was mainly trying to be a middleman in the process in an attempt to answer questions and give info without everyone having to come to me and me repeating myself over and over like I'm having to do here with you.

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Do you have an instruction/instalation manual?

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[Michigander]

Do you have an instruction/instalation manual?

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It's advertised as coming with one and is advertised as easy an installation as a clutch change. Was just saying that what he is saying now does not match how it was advertised at all.

Sorry if calling it like it's spelled out in black and white hurts everyone's feelings

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[jaybyrd]

Do you have an instruction/instalation manual?

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Yes I have full instructions and teardown/install pics I can email.

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[Hondasxs]

Club,
I want to make a statement that ScotterChris is no longer affiliated with the IRG, HondaSxS.com, or the Honda Pioneer Riders FaceBook Group. We all know of his dealings in the past and we need to clear the air of all that.
Please, lets not put @jaybyrd in that same boat as ScotterChris. Jaybyrd is trying to be helpful and explain this IRG to us.

@jaybyrd, Has taken on this challenge of producing the IRG due to the request of other Pioneer owners. I believe it will be a good mod once all the kinks are worked out. This takes time and people leaving their machine at his shop for months at a time to produce and test. He has already improved on the "whine" issue and I'm sure he is working on other enhancements.

The shift issue is a liveable side effect of the IRG. The "fix", if/when available, will most likely be around a few hundred dollars and available through Rapid Revolutions - Revolutionize Your Ride - Power Sports Parts & Repair if they agree to build a "fix." But for many, you will learn to handle the IRG and decide you can life without the "fix".

So what is this shift issue?
Similar to what I have experienced on my Rincon. It is only noticeable when you accelerate near full throttle. If you accelerate at 95% throttle then it will shift just fine. Here is why it will not at full throttle: When you "hammer down" the computer is just about to send a "gear change" single. But before it does the motor "revs out" this then cancels the "gear change" request and allows you to rev out. The fix, will move the "gear change" point just a few clicks before the "rev out" point thus allowing the "gear change" single to go through.
Manual shift works as normal in both manual and auto mode.

I hope this helped explain some things better.

 

[popeye]

Yes I have full instructions and teardown/install pics I can email.

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Sent you a pm

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[jaybyrd]

It's advertised as coming with one and is advertised as easy an installation as a clutch change. Was just saying that what he is saying now does not match how it was advertised at all.

Sorry if calling it like it's spelled out in black and white hurts everyone's feelings

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No feelings hurt my way, comes with the territory. I'm sorry you were misinformed, there is a little more to it than just being able to pull the clutches but I think you're going a little overboard as far as pointing out these details in an attempt to make me or the IGR process look negative for someone having "zero interest".

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[popeye]

It's advertised as coming with one and is advertised as easy an installation as a clutch change. Was just saying that what he is saying now does not match how it was advertised at all.

Sorry if calling it like it's spelled out in black and white hurts everyone's feelings

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If you have zero interest than stop giving your opinion. I never asked for it and dont need it.

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