Talon How does front drive shaft clutch work?

[906UP]

i vote elctromagnet selenoid style. test with a piece of metal close by and flipping the switch back and forth if the magnet is strong enough should feel it outside the barrel

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I'll try this this wkd, my Talon isnt going anywhere, we have 2'+ of snow.

 

[Admin]

 

[HondaTech]

#20 looks like it is a electro magnetic clutch.....yes, I know it's just a guess. Until someone tears it apart we may never know, maybe @HondaTech knows.

I'll look into what's inside the housing behind the front diff.

The axles in the Talon front differential (and Pioneer LE) have a pulse gear on them that reads speed to the sensor mounted on top of the diff.

 

[DAJO]

I'll look into what's inside the housing behind the front diff.

The axles in the Talon front differential (and Pioneer LE) have a pulse gear on them that reads speed to the sensor mounted on top of the diff.

Good thank you no more guessing

 

[lee]

I think honda has 2 2x ~ 4x systems.
On the p500 and p700 there is a splined connector that slides over the shaft to connect the front.
This is controlled by a lever and push/pull cable and can be screwed up if engaged when the shafts are spinning at different speeds.

On the ATVs and the p1k and Talon they have a push button system.
They may not be the same but operate the same way.

I hate to link this guys web site, it's loaded up with needless crap.
But 1/3 of the way down the page you are looking for this section - 2017 Honda Rancher 420 4×4 TraxLok 4WD System
It explains the ATV system, but it's the same principle.

2017 Honda Rancher 420 ATV Comparison Review - What's the Difference? Which one is Better?

Probably losing membership points for that...

 

[snuffnwhisky]

It's an electrical engagement similar to the manually cable operated pioneer setup. Slides a splined coupler to lock the driveshaft to the pinion when in 4wd. The other part I dont know for certain but most likely considering they call it a clutch and like other models, there is a clutch pack in it to help slip with shock loads to save the front diff and axles.

 

[906UP]

It's not electro magnetic as far as I can tell. 1st off, the 4wd doesnt engage unless the engine is running, with key on/engine off it will lock then unlock. I tested this with the front wheels up & the rig in park.
Doing the same test with the engine running the 4wd will engage and stay locked. With it running and i4wd on there was no magnetic field detected around the actuator/clutch.

 

[Alan_Vander]

guess its an enclosed shift motor and fork

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[906UP]

guess its an enclosed shift motor and fork

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That was my thought,I didn't hear a stepper motor but I can't hear much any way, my other thought was thermal like the 88-95 GM trucks but I didn't pick up any heat with the temp gun.

 

[JACKAL]

Since y'all ignored the truth in this post by someone who knows.

Talon - How does front drive shaft clutch work?

I'll throw my opinion into the conjecture thread. Pretty sure inside the front differential is a garden gnome and a monkey, when the gnome sees one side turning and the opposite not, he hits the monkey who pulls a lever to almost lock that stuff up. Pretty sure I-4WD uses 2 monkeys one for each front brake, and if it sensed rear not rotating disengaging 4WD altogether so playing spin the tires with front only elevated doesn't give an accurate sense of what it does in real forward motion.

 

[906UP]

Since y'all ignored the truth in this post by someone who knows.

Talon - How does front drive shaft clutch work?

I'll throw my opinion into the conjecture thread. Pretty sure inside the front di is a garden gnome and a monkey, when the gnome sees one side turning and the opposite not, he hits the monkey who pulls a lever to almost lock that stuff up. Pretty sure I-4WD uses 2 monkeys one for each front brake, and if it sensed rear not rotating disengaging 4WD altogether so playing spin the tires with front only elevated doesn't give an accurate sense of what it does in real forward motion.

While I thoroughly enjoyed your explanation I am willing to admit I missed his post. Thanks @lee for the link.

From the article @lee referenced...... this should answer your questions @DAJO , the front diff on the talon appears to use the same design.

The Rancher 4×4 models also feature TraxLok selectable 2WD/4WD capabilities that enable the rider to quickly shift between the nimble handling of a 2WD and the extra traction of a 4WD ATV. TraxLok incorporates a two-way mechanical roller clutch with a series of hardened-steel rollers that lock up in a mere six degrees of rotation for a smooth, virtually instantaneous response while either accelerating or decelerating on flat ground or an incline. This system also operates in Reverse. To ensure smooth operation, the TraxLok system only engages when the speed differential between the front and rear wheels is less than six mph. Once engaged, the system remains engaged on downhills for true 4WD braking.

 

[DAJO]

While I thoroughly enjoyed your explanation I am willing to admit I missed his post. Thanks @lee for the link.

From the article @lee referenced...... this should answer your questions @DAJO , the front diff on the talon appears to use the same design.

The Rancher 4×4 models also feature TraxLok selectable 2WD/4WD capabilities that enable the rider to quickly shift between the nimble handling of a 2WD and the extra traction of a 4WD ATV. TraxLok incorporates a two-way mechanical roller clutch with a series of hardened-steel rollers that lock up in a mere six degrees of rotation for a smooth, virtually instantaneous response while either accelerating or decelerating on flat ground or an incline. This system also operates in Reverse. To ensure smooth operation, the TraxLok system only engages when the speed differential between the front and rear wheels is less than six mph. Once engaged, the system remains engaged on downhills for true 4WD braking.

View attachment 175744

Yes it does. After looking at the clutch I can see how it can have internal problems that could cause the noise we are hearing.

 

[906UP]

Found this little blurb, a lot of it is a repeat from @lee link but this one mentions a electromagnetic clutch

"TraxLok is activated by a magnetic switching mechanism-technically known as an electromagnetic mechanical clutch unit (EMCU). This unit actuates a mechanical roller clutch located on the driveshaft near the front differential. This two-way mechanical roller clutch incorporates a series of hardened steel rollers that lock up in a mere 6 degrees of rotation for a smooth, virtually instantaneous response while either accelerating or decelerating, on flat ground or on a hill. And the system operates in Reverse as well."

 

[HondaTech]

What's weird on the newer Rancher (420) the 2wd/4wd actuator is mechanical. You push a lever forward and it moves a cable that actuates the lever down on the rear of the front diff. There is a wing nut to adjust for play and I've seen those get stuck after packing full of mud and not return to 2wd.

 

[906UP]

What's weird on the newer Rancher (420) the 2wd/4wd actuator is mechanical. You push a lever forward and it moves a cable that actuates the lever down on the rear of the front diff. There is a wing nut to adjust for play and I've seen those get stuck after packing full of mud and not return to 2wd.

This is how the P5 4wd works too.