I decided to go with a lithium battery.

[DRZRon1]

let’s test these out, so who is gonna leave your lights and accessories on overnight in freezing temps and please report back on the restart feature !!!!

 

[Admin]

 

[Indiana SxS]

Thats where I got mine as i stated. I havent found a place that sells them any cheaper. So far I am glad i made the decision.

 

[Indiana SxS]

let’s test these out, so who is gonna leave your lights and accessories on overnight in freezing temps and please report back on the restart feature !!!!

At 11 volts the Module will kick in and cut power. Then must press the restart button to start and let it charge back up.

 

[Hometeam]

let’s test these out, so who is gonna leave your lights and accessories on overnight in freezing temps and please report back on the restart feature !!!!

I have used the restart already after a winch event ran the battery down and it fired right up after I hit the restart button!

 

[Indiana SxS]

I have used the restart already after a winch event ran the battery down and it fired right up after I hit the restart button!

Nice, thanks for that info. Just for my own knowledge did you not leave your machine turned on while using your winch ?

 

[lee]

I have used the restart already after a winch event ran the battery down and it fired right up after I hit the restart button!

@Hometeam one of the reasons I am interested is to have some reserve to run the winch.
Can you give a report?
What was your impression for how far you could winch before the battery was done?

As for starting with a cold Li-ion battery, watch the project farm youtube test of jump packs.
He throws the test batteries in a freezer than hooks them up to his tractor.
The better units start by cranking stupid slow.
Then it cranks again.
Then it speeds up and starts the tractor ones the internal temperature of the battery comes up.
The cheap units just pop the breakers.

 

[Hometeam]

Nice, thanks for that info. Just for my own knowledge did you not leave your machine turned on while using your winch ?

@Hometeam one of the reasons I am interested is to have some reserve to run the winch.
Can you give a report?
What was your impression for how far you could winch before the battery was done?

As for starting with a cold Li-ion battery, watch the project farm youtube test of jump packs.
He throws the test batteries in a freezer than hooks them up to his tractor.
The better units start by cranking stupid slow.
Then it cranks again.
Then it speeds up and starts the tractor ones the internal temperature of the battery comes up.
The cheap units just pop the breakers.

Not sure my example is the best one, but I had just put the battery in so not sure of the actual charge status. Shortly after installing I needed to winch a sxs over and do some work. I just didn't start it while I was using it 🤷‍♂️ and after done using it I went to start it up to move it and it was dead. Hit the button, hit the key, and bam she came back to life!!) Made me happy!!

Maybe I will put mine through a cold overnight lights on test....it's in the 20s temp here.

 

[Vikes79]

I’ve been looking at lithium batteries for awhile now. Lots of reading and research.

My application is a bit different however…mostly for ice fishing applications, sounders, cameras, etc and even in my ice house. Common theme here is weight and subzero temps are the norm…

For an ATV or even a vehicle in the same conditions….you’d need a self heating lithium battery to even be effective in taking on a charge is what I’ve read. The battery will discharge, but it won’t be able to charge effectively in the real cold. Also from what I gather, the charging technology in todays ATVs, cars, boats etc motors doesn’t lend itself to fully charging a lithium battery properly to take advantage of its life and density…IE basically burning out an expensive battery with out modifications to the charging system. In this scenario, it’s dang hard to beat a good AGM battery.

in my opinion the best application for Lithium are where you know that you need long run times, weight really, really, matters and may not necessarily need to charge right away in a cold environment.

For example, in my ice house I have a 50ah deep cycle agm battery with a 1500w inverter used to power it before I removed the vent free heater and replaced it with a much safer vented camper furnace. Now I have a new problem of the battery not being able to run the furnace over night (at least I won’t be as likely to die from CO) and need to compensate with around 100ah of useable battery. If I stay with AGM, it means I need to have 2 group 31 batts (100ah each..50% discharge) at an additional 67lbs each (134lbs) OR use 1 Lifepo at 100ah that weighs about 35 lbs.

No brainer for me…but knowing that it must be warm to charge effectively, is the reason it will be inside the ice house vs the exterior. When I use the 100ah lithium battery, plus the weight of the furnace and new camper distribution panel for lithium (I modified a kitchen cabinet to fit all of it neatly) , the net weight added is around 40lbs which I can work with and only have one battery. If I go with 2 agm, then the net add in weight around 125lbs…

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Will that battery shut down while the engine is running and using the winch? I've saw 11v many times while winching.

 

[Indiana SxS]

I’ve been looking at lithium batteries for awhile now. Lots of reading and research.

My application is a bit different however…mostly for ice fishing applications, sounders, cameras, etc and even in my ice house. Common theme here is weight and subzero temps are the norm…

For an ATV or even a vehicle in the same conditions….you’d need a self heating lithium battery to even be effective in taking on a charge is what I’ve read. The battery will discharge, but it won’t be able to charge effectively in the real cold. Also from what I gather, the charging technology in todays ATVs, cars, boats etc motors doesn’t lend itself to fully charging a lithium battery properly to take advantage of its life and density…IE basically burning out an expensive battery with out modifications to the charging system. In this scenario, it’s dang hard to beat a good AGM battery.

in my opinion the best application for Lithium are where you know that you need long run times, weight really, really, matters and may not necessarily need to charge right away in a cold environment.

For example, in my ice house I have a 50ah deep cycle agm battery with a 1500w inverter used to power it before I removed the vent free heater and replaced it with a much safer vented camper furnace. Now I have a new problem of the battery not being able to run the furnace over night (at least I won’t be as likely to die from CO) and need to compensate with around 100ah of useable battery. If I stay with AGM, it means I need to have 2 group 31 batts (100ah each..50% discharge) at an additional 67lbs each (134lbs) OR use 1 Lifepo at 100ah that weighs about 35 lbs.

No brainer for me…but knowing that it must be warm to charge effectively, is the reason it will be inside the ice house vs the exterior. When I use the 100ah lithium battery, plus the weight of the furnace and new camper distribution panel for lithium (I modified a kitchen cabinet to fit all of it neatly) , the net weight added is around 40lbs which I can work with and only have one battery. If I go with 2 agm, then the net add in weight around 125lbs…

Nice write up. Obviously keeping your battery indoors will work for your situation. Keep in mind that once the core of the battery reaches 32 it’s good for charging. What I’m getting at on the SxS if I go start it and it’s 15 degrees outside it won’t take long for the core to be at 32 and be charging even without heat from the engine. I think that’s why we haven’t seen any complaints from anyone running the antigravity as no one’s having issues. I was just like everyone else on like do I really want to do lithium. But started thinking everything is Lithium from Tesla to Cellphones. When it comes to charging antigravity says you’re good unless using an older rectifier and since talons came out in 2019 no one should have that issue. Only time will tell but personally everything is promising and I’ve had no issues yet and haven’t used a lithium trickle charger at all like I did on my AGM.

 

[Indiana SxS]

Will that battery shut down while the engine is running and using the winch? I've saw 11v many times while winching.

I can’t answer that question as I haven’t been put in the situation to use my winch yet. Although one thing that may help is the voltage is higher on lithium than AGM. If the battery did shut down you would just have to hit the restart button on next start. They also sell a kit to be able to do that via phone or a dongle hanging out if taking the clips and cover is to much of a hassle for some.

 

[Lil_Steve]

Some lithium battery questions recently came up on a motorcycle forum I'm on, someone from Antigravity is a member there and answered the questions, they might provide answers to some members here as well. Below is the copied post from Antigravity:

Hi all, I'll try to give some BASIC info without getting to into it. Hopefully I get most the questions answered so they can be understood a bit better.

- Lithium Batteries have improved alot over the years, but it wasn't necessarily the quality of the Lithium Battery inside, but rather the education of the Customers allowing them to understand that you shouldn't use a Lead/Acid Charger, additionally the Customer being aware that over-discharging any batteries damages them as does over-charging them. Also the fact that Lithium Chargers became more available and used. The final and most important piece of this was that the Battery Management Systems inside the Lithium Batteries became the norm several years back. The earlier versions of Lithium Battery did not have the BMS protections, and quite often IF the Lithium Battery was over-discharged deeply, for example into the 4-6v range then jump-started or bump-started or put on a Lead/Acid charger would in fact be charged at too high of a rate for the batteries to handle and they would swell up or even melt due to an effect called Thermal Runaway. The De-Sulphate mode, as mentioned by Sonny also would damage the Lithium Battery just as he stated.

- Other factors in the Lithium Batteries dying quickly were that if you over-discharge any battery chemistry Lead or Lithium they can be damaged and Lithium will show that damage faster because it is not a large hunk of metal. Also many bikes that are pre 1990s had mechanical voltage regulators that were often bad, especially in the 1970s and 80s bikes that people were making into Cafe Racers, or re-doing. They would be spiking very high voltages into batteries that did not have a BMS to protect from the Over-charging aspect of these old and defective voltage regulators. So modern bikes have Solid State Voltage regulators that rarely go bad, and don't spike massive voltage into the battery if they become defective. So many companies started making plug and play solid state voltage regulators for those older bikes and that helped on that side of things.

So the point is nowadays a quality Lithium Battery Brand will have a very solid Lithium Battery option that should outperform Lead/Acid on most every level. But you do still need to follow basic maintenance for a Lithium Battery such as not letting it over-discharge if stored to long, using the correct Charger for it... meaning a Lithium Version just so there isn't a chance of any issues. Don't try to use a Radio Control type of Lithium Charger on a Motorsports battery simply because there are too many setting for different types of Lithium and a mistake on the settings could damage your Lithium Battery. Just use a name brand Lithium Charger for your bikes/car if you getting a Lithium Battery.

I also want to touch on the Battery Management System (BMS) inside a Lithium Battery to clear up some possible mistaken beliefs. The BMS will in fact offer protections from over-discharge, over-charge, and will balance the cells of the Lithium Battery Cells inside your Battery. But it is NOT Correcting or refining the Charge that is going into your battery. I want to make sure that is understood. If you have a system that is over-charging a Lithium Battery, the BMS of the Battery is not correcting that and making it "all good". If you have a faulty system in the vehicle the Lithium Battery's BMS does NOT correct that whatsoever. For example say you have a older bike from the 1970s with a bad voltage regulator and it is spiking voltage to the Litihium Battery, the lithium battery does not correct it, and depending on the program it will just shut off the battery from recieving the charge... it will not make it all good and lower the charge to the correct voltage and current. Same goes for over-discharge, the lithium Battery will put itself into a Sleep/Protection Mode, but you still have to make sure you don't leave it in that over-discharged state too long. These batteries are not an infinate supply of energy that can sit for several months after they go into their over-discharged protection mode. Keep in mind when a Lithium battery is discharged enough to go into in sleep/protection mode it as at a very low voltage point, it absolutely needs to be recharged within a month or so depending on the size of the Battery, a small 3Ah or even 2Ah battery will discharge pretty quick after it is already heavily over-discharged. So the point is to look at the BMS as a form of protection, but not a complete fail safe for the battery, you still have to maintain it , make sure you charging system is in good condition and use the correct charger.

Last point is charging. If you have a modern charging system on your bike/Car that is in good operating condition, then will be able to use a Lithium Battery in it. That is because the typical charging system in all vehicles is sort of standardized to a degree and they usually are charging from 13.8v to 14.8v max depending on the vehicles system rpms and other factors. But that is suitable for most all Lithium Batteries. In fact the charging profile for a Lead/Acid Battery will work for a Lithium Battery in most all cases since they operate in a very similar range. The problem is the De-Sulphate Mode also called by other names of the Modern Lead/Acid Charger... that is why we say not to use them. The Bike or Cars system does not have the De-Sulfate mode as an aftermarket Charger does.... so you don't really have to worry about over-charging or oddball charging to your lithium Battery when you put it in a modern vehicle. In most cases its a direct swap and no issues at all.... but also note you should be using a similar sized Battery. You don't want to put a super small Lithium Battery in your vehicle simply because it has enough power to start it. You want to use and equivalent size that is designed for the vehicle... because bigger vehicle can have a higher charge rate that a tiny lithium battery can't handle as well as the correct size battery. I say this because we have seen people buy our small Batteries and put them in Trucks or Passenger Cars simply because they can start the Big vehicle. But we have to tell them they have to use our Auto or Large Battery for that use. But that is not how it works, you need the proper size battery for your application/vehicle also. You can go a little smaller if your racing, and you can always go as big as you can fit because that has not ill effects.

Anyways I'm rambling a bit... if you have any questions I didn't answer let us know. Also if I mis-spelled try to forget about it... I'm just typing fast.

 

[Smitty335]

Some lithium battery questions recently came up on a motorcycle forum I'm on, someone from Antigravity is a member there and answered the questions, they might provide answers to some members here as well. Below is the copied post from Antigravity:

Good info!

 

[solrus]

Anyone did 2 Lithium batteries Primary ( smaller capacity) and Aux ( larger capacity)?

I'm getting Noco NLP14 - NOCO - 500A Lithium Powersport Battery - NLP14

 

[Seadonist]

When my OEM dies I’m gonna go dual lithium. Currently running one lithium with the OEM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[solrus]

When my OEM dies I’m gonna go dual lithium. Currently running one lithium with the OEM


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My primary died I think, I could not start with dual set up Original and twice as size Aux could not turn the engine in -25F , was lucky to have neighbor at the cabin to lend me his jump pack and on a third time , it started. Now Im buying heating pads for oil tank and oil pan and going lithium , but not sure if UTVSBI-18 dual battery isolator will work or buy 19L .

 

[Bighat]

I'm not sure about the lithium yet. I want it be better but the cold says different. Read the clip below.

Tesla owner says he had to cancel Christmas plans because car would not charge in freezing weather

Virginia radio personality Domenick Nati says he had to cancel Christmas plans because his Tesla S car would not charge when he plugged it in at multiple sites.

www.foxbusiness.com

 

[CID]

I'm not sure about the lithium yet. I want it be better but the cold says different. Read the clip below.

Tesla owner says he had to cancel Christmas plans because car would not charge in freezing weather

Virginia radio personality Domenick Nati says he had to cancel Christmas plans because his Tesla S car would not charge when he plugged it in at multiple sites.

www.foxbusiness.com

I've mentioned the guy on ADVRider who tested lithium batteries, those tests went on for several years. The one constant - every one of them performed poorly in cold temperatures. So if you're trying to improve cold weather starting, lithium isn't the best choice IMO (and his).

 

[solrus]

I've mentioned the guy on ADVRider who tested lithium batteries, those tests went on for several years. The one constant - every one of them performed poorly in cold temperatures. So if you're trying to improve cold weather starting, lithium isn't the best choice IMO (and his).

I wonder if automatic True battery disconnect did not allow my AUX battery to help the primary battery bc AUX had low voltage too.

 

[Bighat]

I don't have dual batteries but I think from what I've read that if the primary battery needs charging the isolator will send all charging to it and not the Aux battery. I'm not sure the Aux battery will help you with starting unless it was wired parallel. You'll have to wait on one these guys with dual batteries to chime in.