P1000 Is my frame out of alignment?

[AZdonW]

So I was doing my front end alignment (was 1" toed in from dealer), when I noticed that the tire/wheel protrudes about 3/4" more from the frame on the right side than the left. I know it could be the tires, but I measured from the wheel, and they were the same. Didn't think too much about it until I tried to install these upper control arm gussets from ebay: Upper control arm gussets and they wouldn't fit at all. On the driver side, the angle was greater than the part and on the passenger side, the angle was less than his part. Seems like the frame was just welded wrong from the factory. What do you think?

Right side:

Left side:

 

[Remington]

Its normal,its not a jeep lol. U have aftermarket wheels. Do u have spacers? Might b one of the wheels. I wouldn't worry too much about this. If I was road racing yes, off roading no. I hate to see what mine is like with wheels, arms , spacers and shocks lol. As long as it passes the eye test, call it good! Your main concern is just getting that toe correct in front good for tire ware.

 

[AZdonW]

Its normal,its not a jeep lol. U have aftermarket wheels. Do u have spacers? Might b one of the wheels. I wouldn't worry too much about this. If I was road racing yes, off roading no. I hate to see what mine is like with wheels, arms , spacers and shocks lol. As long as it passes the eye test, call it good! Your main concern is just getting that toe correct in front good for tire ware.

Yeah, I just installed those Rock a Billy's after a sharp limb took out one of the original tires on our 3rd outing. No offsets. I was really hoping I could install those gussets to head off at the pass the a-arm mount ripping I've seen here on this forum, but the angles were way out.

 

[Remington]

Yeah, I just installed those Rock a Billy's after a sharp limb took out one of the original tires on our 3rd outing. No offsets. I was really hoping I could install those gussets to head off at the pass the a-arm mount ripping I've seen here on this forum, but the angles were way out.

Do u have aftermarket arms? If u want to have that gusset versatility, a set of satv arms is worth the investment. Then u can line the machine up to your harts content if you feel u still need to?

 

[AZdonW]

Do u have aftermarket arms? If u want to have that gusset versatility, a set of satv arms is worth the investment. Then u can line the machine up to your harts content if you feel u still need to?

No aftermarket arms. I'm not sure how satv arms would allow me to reinforce the a-arm mount. Or did I misunderstand you.

 

[Remington]

No aftermarket arms. I'm not sure how satv arms would allow me to reinforce the a-arm mount. Or did I misunderstand you.

It wont reinforce the mount. They give u more adjustment for tow end and especially for the saggy rears. That mount is pretty strong. Ive had my machine since 16’ been through some rough stuff and no issues. U only know of a few guys that have had to rebuild the mount and they use there machine much harder.

 

[AZdonW]

It wont reinforce the mount. They give u more adjustment for tow end and especially for the saggy rears. That mount is pretty strong. Ive had my machine since 16’ been through some rough stuff and no issues. U only know of a few guys that have had to rebuild the mount and they use there machine much harder.

Thanks, that's reassuring. I read one post where someone was just driving across their farm and must have dipped into a hole--barely even noticed it. And it ripped the upper A-arm mount. That just got me a little scared.

 

[Remington]

Thanks, that's reassuring. I read one post where someone was just driving across their farm and must have dipped into a hole--barely even noticed it. And it ripped the upper A-arm mount. That just got me a little scared.

Yeah, he didn't post what kind of activity he had done with the machine prior tho

 

[bumperm]

The guy who tore his front upper arm hit a ditch that was hidden by grass. You gotta figure that if the front wheel hits ditch or obstacle so the impact is higher on the wheel, lets say worst case even or higher than the front wheel axle, you've got almost a ton of machine moving that is pulling that upper arm attach at a vector angle outward and to the rear. Somethings going to give . . . it's a shame that Honda didn't engineer it so the arm would fail before the frame.

That said, I'm a newbie here, haven't even driven my P1000 in combat yet. But I don't plan on hitting obstacles hard going fast.

 

[ToddACimer]

The pictures you provided don't do much for figuring out an issue. Things to look at would be the lower a-arm as the are easy to bend and the upper a-arm mount as they can be torn off the frame

 

[AZdonW]

The pictures you provided don't do much for figuring out an issue. Things to look at would be the lower a-arm as the are easy to bend and the upper a-arm mount as they can be torn off the frame

Yeah, I know. I just assumed the frame angle issue at the upper a-arms is related to the fact that the driver side wheel protrudes 3/4" more than the passenger side from the frame.
I'm saying that the angle between the two bolts side and the single bolt side of this gusset device is quite different than my machine. There should be no bending, as my machine is only 9 months old and has been driven only on tame forest service roads. I'll try to take some photos of those areas tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[bumperm]

Check closely for signs of paint cracking - (I'm not sure what type of powder coat Honda uses, but on aircraft engine mounts that are powder coated, it's common to use a paint that is brittle enough to show stress bending early on, hopefully before failure.

As to hole frame hole alignment, I assume Honda robotically welds the frames in a fixturing jig so that things would be closely aligned - - that's just a wag (wild ___ guess).

I considered those gussets, but the winch mount (SE model) is using those two frame bolts and that changes the spacing. The seller warns that they will not fit when some bumpers or winch mounts are used.

A question for anyone who has installed these gusset brackets - does the slotted part just slide/fit over the upper control arm bolt head? Or is a longer bolt required? If it just fits over, I may fabricate my own brackets and weld them to the winch mount - that would be fairly simple.

 

[P1K5Dave]

Which angle are you talking about as a problem with those gussets? It'd be helpful if you could show them in place.

I cant see why they wouldnt bolt up. Those are pretty cool (altho a bit expensive) for guys that don't want to fab something up.

 

[AZdonW]

Check closely for signs of paint cracking - (I'm not sure what type of powder coat Honda uses, but on aircraft engine mounts that are powder coated, it's common to use a paint that is brittle enough to show stress bending early on, hopefully before failure.

As to hole frame hole alignment, I assume Honda robotically welds the frames in a fixturing jig so that things would be closely aligned - - that's just a wag (wild ___ guess).

I considered those gussets, but the winch mount (SE model) is using those two frame bolts and that changes the spacing. The seller warns that they will not fit when some bumpers or winch mounts are used.

A question for anyone who has installed these gusset brackets - does the slotted part just slide/fit over the upper control arm bolt head? Or is a longer bolt required? If it just fits over, I may fabricate my own brackets and weld them to the winch mount - that would be fairly simple.

The bolt is long enough to loosen the nut an slip the bracket over the bolt...but mine wouldn't fit because the angles were off.

 

[AZdonW]

Which angle are you talking about as a problem with those gussets? It'd be helpful if you could show them in place.

I cant see why they wouldnt bolt up. Those are pretty cool (altho a bit expensive) for guys that don't want to fab something up.

Unfortunately, I've sent them back for a refund. I'm talking about the angle between the piece of metal with the two holes and the piece of metal with the slotted hole. On the driver side, that angle was wider than his part, and on the passenger side, it was narrower than his part.

 

[bumperm]

Was the misalignment excessive enough to keep the bolts from being started? E.g. could they have been threaded in and then cinched down a reasonable amount to see if things would sort of self align? Probably not, huh? In which case I'd be taking it to the dealer and getting their opinion while it still under warranty. If there's no indication of impact damage, then the frame should be straight.

It might be helpful to use a machinist's protractor to measure relevant angles:

 

[AZdonW]

Was the misalignment excessive enough to keep the bolts from being started? E.g. could they have been threaded in and then cinched down a reasonable amount to see if things would sort of self align? Probably not, huh? In which case I'd be taking it to the dealer and getting their opinion while it still under warranty. If there's no indication of impact damage, then the frame should be straight.

It might be helpful to use a machinist's protractor to measure relevant angles:

View attachment 284092

On the passenger side, I could barely get one screw started, and when I torqued down on the a-arm bolt, it bent the gusset bracket. The other side was too far off.

 

[bumperm]

On the passenger side, I could barely get one screw started, and when I torqued down on the a-arm bolt, it bent the gusset bracket. The other side was too far off.

Is there any evidence the frame has been bent? Look for cracks in paint etc.

 

[AZdonW]

Here are some more photos of the front end.

Here are the problem areas:

 

[AZdonW]

Is there any evidence the frame has been bent? Look for cracks in paint etc.

I'm going to have to give it a good clean'n before I can see well enough