russknight
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Anybody running them? If so, where's the best place to buy them?
Can't help you with "where" to buy, but there's a couple of things I'm aware of to note. If I were adding a battery for AUX, I'd go with a lithium ferrous phosphate, LiFePO4 for short. They have a little less power density than lithium ion, but are a lot more stable and don't support fire, so safer than lithium ion.
It's good for the battery to have an on-board BMS (battery management system) to keep the cell voltage even / balanced and to prevent overcharge or over current. I have a earlier lithium ion as the main battery in my Honda S2000, the BMS is separate in the battery specific charger - works okay but better all in one. It's lasted quite a few years. Not driven often though.
It's good for the battery to have an on-board BMS (battery management system) to keep the cell voltage even / balanced and to prevent overcharge or over current. I have a earlier lithium ion as the main battery in my Honda S2000, the BMS is separate in the battery specific charger - works okay but better all in one. It's lasted quite a few years. Not driven often though.
Check out this company. The make AGM and lithium. But make sure to look at batteries of the page I'm linking, they're for auto but there small and light weight. https://braillebattery.com/collections/performance-auto
russknight
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Glad I could help out. I'm looking at one for a second battery myself. Little pricey but normally you get what you pay for.
But double check the specs on their batteries to be sure they meet your needs. Are you after a battery for cranking the motor, the main battery? That wants to be rated for cranking amps (CCA, or cold cranking amps measured over a very short term, like 30 seconds). If you are after a battery for Aux, running accessories, then you probably need a battery with thicker plates (deep cycle) and a higher amp hour rating, where CCA is not important, but the ability to deliver decent current rates for longer periods is.
My opinion…
When it comes to lithium batteries, you’re not really getting what you pay for.
They’ve come a long way in the last decade, but still way over priced.
I have some I use for flying model airplanes, they pack a good short duration punch. But for amp hour capacity they’re really not mature technology yet.
What you’re paying for is the continuing R&D needed for the next generation of wunder battery.
Lead Acid technology is mature. They’re not going to get much better than what we have now. If you take care of LA batteries they are reliable and perform well.
Sitting discharged is the big killer of LA batteries. Keep them fully charged with a smart trickle charger and they will usually last a long time.
Mopower58
Unburdened by what has been!
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
This is the one I bought, half the weight of the original battery. 6 months in and zero problems. I bought it on the internet.
I respectfully disagree with some of what you've said.
Lead acid (Pb) batteries last longest when discharged only down to 80%, and 50% should be considered the "floor" for longevity. They last longest if stored fully charged. The plates will sulfate, increasing internal resistance and capacity if left discharged for any length of time. Their cyclic life is limited compared to Li or LiFePO4.
On the other hand "lithium" batteries should be stored a 40 to 60% charge for optimal lifespan. You can discharge a lithium battery down to 0 percent with no damage. Unlike a Pb battery, Li maintains its voltage much better during discharge, and charge/discharge cycles are far higher than Pb. So while initial cost is higher, the additional life cycles makes up for that. Energy density is much greater to, especially considering the lighter weight.
Not saying Pb doesn't have it's place - - boringly reliable. If you have a Tesla, you never know when it might be good time to stop and have a nice campfire.
I looked at their site . . . couldn't find anything about whether they have an on-board BMS or require a separate battery charger (if they use a regular charger, then the BMS should be built in, I'd think). I'd be cautious without more info - maybe I'm not looking in the right place.
advertisement
Mopower58
Unburdened by what has been!
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
I never questioned it. The Pioneer alternator seems to keep it fully charged so I would think a standard charger would work. Hopefully I never discharge it that far. Ignorance is bliss I guess.
I'm no expert. Discharging isn't the problem. The battery management system (BMS) monitors each cell individually to keep state of charge between cells the same, this prevents a stronger cell from being overcharged while another weaker cell is undercharged - without a BMS, that spread between cell voltage widens and bad things can happen. The BMS typically also guards against overcurrent, overvoltage, overtemperature, etc. So good for both safety and long life.
Mopower58
Unburdened by what has been!
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Well if it catches on fire it will be an excellent opportunity to try out my new Element Fire Extinguisher! 😂
I say just pee on it but I'm older now and my hose pressure is down.
Probably not much risk, though water is not effective on lithium fires - urine might be! Word of caution never pee on a high voltage electrical fire. Well, unless you've a lot of practice peeing on electric fences and such, and/or have built up a degree of stamina. If the occasion warrants, and you really have no other choice, my strong suggestion is to pee in spurts. That way the electricity cannot quite reach your hose "nozzle" end.
I’m glad it’s working for you. Don’t get stuck.
That label says 12V/72WH
Since VxA=W, 72WH makes that a 6AH battery.
Keep the engine running, it won’t power your winch for very long.
Everything you said is true, except the discharge to 0% thing. Maybe to the BMS cutoff, but not 0%. LiPo batteries are damaged below 20%. I think LiFePO4 may be as well, but usually have a BMS to stop discharge. And you can’t charge them when it’s cold.
Lithium conversions are trendy in the RV world right now, for all the reasons you state. But with good care, a set of cheap flooded lead acid batteries can last 5-7 years. Lithium’s may or may not go a little longer, but at 4-5 times the cost.
There are advantages and disadvantages to each chemistry. For the price difference, I’ll stick to lead acid.
Mopower58
Unburdened by what has been!
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Depends, not the diaper, on how tall the fire is. That battery is way on up there in the scheme of things!
Mopower58
Unburdened by what has been!
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
The element is powder free and never needs recharging. Very light weight too.
G
I have one similar to this that I just installed last week in my Pioneer 1000-5 but have used others very similar for my dirt bikes and other off road vehicles. The Yausa batteries that come in most Powersports products seem to last 3 - 5 years and then wear out. On my 2009 KTM dirt bike I replaced the OEM battery with one of these 10 years ago and it still starts the bike.
I find they work very well. In my case I don't have a lot of lights and accessories, and stuff to need a second battery and I am not sure I would use this for that use case.
There was a comment that it won't run your winch very long, that is true of the flooded battery that came with our Pioneer's as well. I never winch without the engine running and sometimes even use it kind of like a PTO and give the engine some extra rpm/throttle for heavy winching.
I realize there is nothing scientific in my statement but from one user to another I like them and find they work very well.
advertisement
