P500 Pioneer 500 Long Travel Kit

[Bruce4795]

I had JAK’s long travel kit installed on my p5 by the local Honda shop. They did a nice job. It is a 2018 with 26 inch Bighorn tires. The back tires are 12 inches wide with 2 inch wheel spacers all around on the original 12 inch rims. It had 10 inches of ground clearance before the kit was installed. It has Walker Evans Shocks.
The kit required moving the 200 lb per inch springs from the back shocks to the front shocks. The rear shocks received new 525 lb per inch springs that are 10 inches long by Hypercoil. The axles provided by the kit are after market strong axles for a Pioneer 700.

After the kit installation All 4 wheels were found to have about 2.2 degrees of negative camber (closer together at the top) which gave the machine a whole new look similar to what one would find on a high performance rig. I was able to adjust the front ground clearance to 10 inches with the preload on the shocks nearly bottomed out. I could get more, but am staying with that for now. The rear ground clearance is set for 11 inches with more available if needed. The kit came with 2 preload spacers for the shocks if needed. I’ve not installed them yet. To adjust the preload on the rear shocks I used endless loop ( no hooks) 500 lb ratchet straps with 1 inch wide webbing. The straps have a much higher breaking strength. I put 2 of the straps on each shock by running the strap between the spring and the shock body and then tightened them very tight. Then I lifted the rear of the rig with a floor jack and the springs got loose enough to adjust the preload collars. If the spring lifts off of the bottom keeper be sure to get the keeper and the spring back in position before lowering the rig to the ground. This may seem elaborate, but you can’t adjust the preload collars without doing a similar procedure due to the heavy forces of the new rear springs.

The new width of the tires on the back is 67 inches at the outer edge of the tires. I calculated the new roll over angle and it is about 40 degrees which is more than any other utility class side by side and more than a lot of sport machines. It is 33.5 degrees from the factory. Wheel travel is advertised as 14 inches and id say that is accurate.

I’ll be making a test ride next week on some desert trails, but when hitting the curb into the driveway in second gear at speed I could barely feel the impact. It is about a 5 inch curb. The ride performance seems to be similar to a Kawasaki KLR650 dual sport motorcycle that had an amazing suspension system.

I may end up putting some fender extensions on since it could be a real mud slinger. Fortunately, I live in the desert.

All in all, the kit promises amazing performance from a stability and ride improvement standpoint.

 

[Admin]

 

[jak9922]

i might need to send you spacers for the front also so you can save some preload adjustments

 

[Bruce4795]

Joe,
I’m fine as is. The rear has plenty of room for preload adjustment. I have the two spacers you sent to Cochise Motorsports that I can use for the front if needed. That is the only one that is nearly out of adjustment.
Appreciate the offer though!
Bruce

 

[trigger]

I had JAK’s long travel kit installed on my p5 by the local Honda shop. They did a nice job. It is a 2018 with 26 inch Bighorn tires. The back tires are 12 inches wide with 2 inch wheel spacers all around on the original 12 inch rims. It had 10 inches of ground clearance before the kit was installed. It has Walker Evans Shocks.
The kit required moving the 200 lb per inch springs from the back shocks to the front shocks. The rear shocks received new 525 lb per inch springs that are 10 inches long by Hypercoil. The axles provided by the kit are after market strong axles for a Pioneer 700.

After the kit installation All 4 wheels were found to have about 2.2 degrees of negative camber (closer together at the top) which gave the machine a whole new look similar to what one would find on a high performance rig. I was able to adjust the front ground clearance to 10 inches with the preload on the shocks nearly bottomed out. I could get more, but am staying with that for now. The rear ground clearance is set for 11 inches with more available if needed. The kit came with 2 preload spacers for the shocks if needed. I’ve not installed them yet. To adjust the preload on the rear shocks I used endless loop ( no hooks) 500 lb ratchet straps with 1 inch wide webbing. The straps have a much higher breaking strength. I put 2 of the straps on each shock by running the strap between the spring and the shock body and then tightened them very tight. Then I lifted the rear of the rig with a floor jack and the springs got loose enough to adjust the preload collars. If the spring lifts off of the bottom keeper be sure to get the keeper and the spring back in position before lowering the rig to the ground. This may seem elaborate, but you can’t adjust the preload collars without doing a similar procedure due to the heavy forces of the new rear springs.

The new width of the tires on the back is 67 inches at the outer edge of the tires. I calculated the new roll over angle and it is about 40 degrees which is more than any other utility class side by side and more than a lot of sport machines. It is 33.5 degrees from the factory. Wheel travel is advertised as 14 inches and id say that is accurate.

I’ll be making a test ride next week on some desert trails, but when hitting the curb into the driveway in second gear at speed I could barely feel the impact. It is about a 5 inch curb. The ride performance seems to be similar to a Kawasaki KLR650 dual sport motorcycle that had an amazing suspension system.

I may end up putting some fender extensions on since it could be a real mud slinger. Fortunately, I live in the desert.

All in all, the kit promises amazing performance from a stability and ride improvement standpoint.

View attachment 205897 View attachment 205898 View attachment 205899 View attachment 205900

So what I got out of that post is that you spent $1700 on the kit, more yet at the Honda shop, you netted no more clearance, 67" wide and your camber's messed up? But it rides smooth and looks cool? 🤔

 

[Bruce4795]

Didn’t mean to give you the wrong impression with my post. I was explaining the before and after for what to expect if one buys the long travel kit so folks that are considering it can have more information and gain from my experience. Hopefully it will help others to make decisions about the kit. I’m glad I did it so far. Maybe it is not needed for a lot of riders.
I ride in rough and often severe off camber situations so the extra width and long travel should really help. I don’t ride on narrow trails. On a recent trip I I slid into a bad off camber situation that was over 35 degrees with a near rollover in a remote location that would have made recovery nearly impossible....hence the kit decision.
Large ground clearance is nice to have sometimes, but I usually get along fine with what I have.
I’m 74 and unable to do the level of work needed to install the kit and I don’t have the skill either....hence the shop. I have great respect for the shop techs.... Our group often goes out for over a week at a time into very remote areas so the fuel consumption of the 500 is ideal. Also, modifying the P5 was much less expensive than buying a different machine with worse mileage.
The negative camber was unexpected, but does not seem to be causing any issues. It does help with cornering stability when carrying a bit of speed from what I’ve read. The shop made the comment to me about the negative camber resembling that found on Baja racing rigs. The kit vendor assured me he made the kit that way on purpose. From what I’ve read up to 4 degrees of negative camber is usually dialed in for certain types of riding so the negative camber is noticeable, but not excessive. Again, that was unexpected and had nothing to do with the purchase of the kit. Perhaps JAK can explain the reason for it more to you. I’m not a performance rider by any stretch of the imagination.
I also wanted to note the change in the roll over angle which is obvious, but having an approximate number helps to quantify the change. I’m a retired mechanical engineer and I enjoyed working on the math for that.
BTW, the anti sway bar is history.
I wish you happy trails!

 

[gmacaluso]

Wow 67" on a 50" stock unit. Must be a completely different vehicle now. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE WEIGHT?

 

[trigger]

Didn’t mean to give you the wrong impression with my post. I was explaining the before and after for what to expect if one buys the long travel kit so folks that are considering it can have more information and gain from my experience. Hopefully it will help others to make decisions about the kit. I’m glad I did it so far. Maybe it is not needed for a lot of riders.
I ride in rough and often severe off camber situations so the extra width and long travel should really help. I don’t ride on narrow trails. On a recent trip I I slid into a bad off camber situation that was over 35 degrees with a near rollover in a remote location that would have made recovery nearly impossible....hence the kit decision.
Large ground clearance is nice to have sometimes, but I usually get along fine with what I have.
I’m 74 and unable to do the level of work needed to install the kit and I don’t have the skill either....hence the shop. I have great respect for the shop techs.... Our group often goes out for over a week at a time into very remote areas so the fuel consumption of the 500 is ideal. Also, modifying the P5 was much less expensive than buying a different machine with worse mileage.
The negative camber was unexpected, but does not seem to be causing any issues. It does help with cornering stability when carrying a bit of speed from what I’ve read. The shop made the comment to me about the negative camber resembling that found on Baja racing rigs. The kit vendor assured me he made the kit that way on purpose. From what I’ve read up to 4 degrees of negative camber is usually dialed in for certain types of riding so the negative camber is noticeable, but not excessive. Again, that was unexpected and had nothing to do with the purchase of the kit. Perhaps JAK can explain the reason for it more to you. I’m not a performance rider by any stretch of the imagination.
I also wanted to note the change in the roll over angle which is obvious, but having an approximate number helps to quantify the change. I’m a retired mechanical engineer and I enjoyed working on the math for that.
BTW, the anti sway bar is history.
I wish you happy trails!

Wasn't offended at all Bruce. I appreciate the post and it sounds like a good set up for your needs just can't justify the work, cost and outcome for most P5 owners. As long as you're happy with it is all that matters. Happy trails as well sir.

 

[Bruce4795]

Wow 67" on a 50" stock unit. Must be a completely different vehicle now. WHAT HAPPENED TO THE WEIGHT?

The new A arms are larger diameter tubing and heavier. I don’t think there is much of a weight difference, but it is heavier. I have not noticed any difference in power or handling due to weight. Actually, increased weight lower in the machine helps to lower the center of gravity a bit. The unsprung weight did go up, but countering that is the increased strength of the A arms. Appreciate your question!

 

[Bruce4795]

Wasn't offended at all Bruce. I appreciate the post and it sounds like a good set up for your needs just can't justify the work, cost and outcome for most P5 owners. As long as you're happy with it is all that matters. Happy trails as well sir.

Thanks very much. I agree that the increased cost and work is not needed for a lot of riders. The near rollover happened in a lava boulder field with a rugged road cut through it. The road had boulders nearly as big as the rig on both sides and the road was badly washed out on one side. I tried going around the washout to the left but slid into it. If it had rolled, it would have ended up upside down against the right string of boulders with the steep incline making it nearly impossible to right it again. Getting another vehicle in to winch it up was impossible also due to the narrow road, boulders on both sides and no way to get there except the road due to the lava boulder field the road was cut through. about the only way to get out would have been to try and use a come along tied off on one of the boulders on the left. The box on the back where the come along was stored might have been blocked limiting access to it. Sure glad it didn’t come to that. I now carry the come along on the passenger side floor just in case.
In any event the whole thing scared me pretty badly. I was with an ATV rider, but he had crashed into a boulder about a mile ahead of me. He was okay, but also badly shaken. We were barely able to turn around.
Appreciate your thoughts and be safe out there with the virus running around!

 

[Splorin]

The 67" set up for the desert SW is probably a good call. Especially if you like 'spirited piloting'. I bailed on the go fast rig for narrow tractor wheelin. You might now be a candidate for a gearup kit???

 

[Bruce4795]

The 67" set up for the desert SW is probably a good call. Especially if you like 'spirited piloting'. I bailed on the go fast rig for narrow tractor wheelin. You might now be a candidate for a gearup kit???

Pardon my ignorance, what is a gear up kit? 🤗🤗🤗

 

[Splorin]

You'd have to search the modifications or build pages. I think he goes by '906up'??? It's basically a gear change that bumps up your top speed. You'll be limited on tire size but for desert runnin short and durable is fine. Most guys can post the link to it but I've only mastered typing on this thing.....

 

[Mudwing]

P500 - A faster P5, it is possible.....gearing increase

First off, if you're not comfortable with tearing into the engine internals STOP right here & hit the back button. This isn't what most would consider an easy modification. If you're still reading..... Like many others I thought the P5 was geared extremely low from the factory, at the rev...

hondasxs.com

 

[Bruce4795]

You'd have to search the modifications or build pages. I think he goes by '906up'??? It's basically a gear change that bumps up your top speed. You'll be limited on tire size but for desert runnin short and durable is fine. Most guys can post the link to it but I've only mastered typing on this thing.....

Thanks....I’ll probably keep my gearing stock since my riding is on slower trails or roads.

 

[Bruce4795]

I had JAK’s long travel kit installed on my p5 by the local Honda shop. They did a nice job. It is a 2018 with 26 inch Bighorn tires. The back tires are 12 inches wide with 2 inch wheel spacers all around on the original 12 inch rims. It had 10 inches of ground clearance before the kit was installed. It has Walker Evans Shocks.
The kit required moving the 200 lb per inch springs from the back shocks to the front shocks. The rear shocks received new 525 lb per inch springs that are 10 inches long by Hypercoil. The axles provided by the kit are after market strong axles for a Pioneer 700.

After the kit installation All 4 wheels were found to have about 2.2 degrees of negative camber (closer together at the top) which gave the machine a whole new look similar to what one would find on a high performance rig. I was able to adjust the front ground clearance to 10 inches with the preload on the shocks nearly bottomed out. I could get more, but am staying with that for now. The rear ground clearance is set for 11 inches with more available if needed. The kit came with 2 preload spacers for the shocks if needed. I’ve not installed them yet. To adjust the preload on the rear shocks I used endless loop ( no hooks) 500 lb ratchet straps with 1 inch wide webbing. The straps have a much higher breaking strength. I put 2 of the straps on each shock by running the strap between the spring and the shock body and then tightened them very tight. Then I lifted the rear of the rig with a floor jack and the springs got loose enough to adjust the preload collars. If the spring lifts off of the bottom keeper be sure to get the keeper and the spring back in position before lowering the rig to the ground. This may seem elaborate, but you can’t adjust the preload collars without doing a similar procedure due to the heavy forces of the new rear springs.

The new width of the tires on the back is 67 inches at the outer edge of the tires. I calculated the new roll over angle and it is about 40 degrees which is more than any other utility class side by side and more than a lot of sport machines. It is 33.5 degrees from the factory. Wheel travel is advertised as 14 inches and id say that is accurate.

I’ll be making a test ride next week on some desert trails, but when hitting the curb into the driveway in second gear at speed I could barely feel the impact. It is about a 5 inch curb. The ride performance seems to be similar to a Kawasaki KLR650 dual sport motorcycle that had an amazing suspension system.

I may end up putting some fender extensions on since it could be a real mud slinger. Fortunately, I live in the desert.

All in all, the kit promises amazing performance from a stability and ride improvement standpoint.

View attachment 205897 View attachment 205898 View attachment 205899 View attachment 205900

Test ride yesterday. The kit performed very well on desert mountain roads in Arizona. Large bumps and ruts essentially disappear. Smaller road bumps are about the same as before. I did notice a slight tendency when making very tight turns that the locked read end tends to want to keep the machine going straight...but this is very minor and does not affect the turning ability....keep in mind my rig is 67 inches wide. Off camber performance is excellent. The calculated roll over angle is about 40 degrees now which puts the machine into a whole different class for performance. Higher speed performance at say 30 mph or more is much more stable when cornering on dirt roads.

 

[Bruce4795]

i might need to send you spacers for the front also so you can save some preload adjustments

question.....
I was running 2 inch spacers to move the wheels out before installing your long travel kit. I left them on initially after the kit was installed. This morning I pulled them off the rear wheels and everything fit okay. If I pull the 2 inch wheel spacers off of the front tires, will there be clearance issues with any part of the suspension on the long travel kit? I have 1 inch spacers ready in case there is an issue. Just looking at it, it appears it may work without any spacers, but I seem to recall you mentioning a 1 inch spacer minimum is required. Thanks much! Bruce

 

[jak9922]

question.....
I was running 2 inch spacers to move the wheels out before installing your long travel kit. I left them on initially after the kit was installed. This morning I pulled them off the rear wheels and everything fit okay. If I pull the 2 inch wheel spacers off of the front tires, will there be clearance issues with any part of the suspension on the long travel kit? I have 1 inch spacers ready in case there is an issue. Just looking at it, it appears it may work without any spacers, but I seem to recall you mentioning a 1 inch spacer minimum is required. Thanks much! Bruce

it depends on your rim offset if you are running stock rims you will need the 1" spacers or you MIGHT rub the lower balljoint plate on full turn

 

[Bruce4795]

it depends on your rim offset if you are running stock rims you will need the 1" spacers or you MIGHT rub the lower balljoint plate on full turn

Great! Thanks. Stock rims.

 

[jak9922]

Great! Thanks. Stock rims.

id definitely keep the 1" on the fronts

 

[Bruce4795]

id definitely keep the 1" on the fronts

Will do! Appreciate it very much. When I took off the rear spacers my ground clearance picked up tp 11 inches from 10 inches which is all I need now.