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Shock Therapy Talon Review

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Enigma

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Excellent review with a lot of great engineering point in the car. Very nice with highlights on keys points that others have not mentioned.
 

PaulF

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Excellent review with a lot of great engineering point in the car. Very nice with highlights on keys points that others have not mentioned.
And then a few months later he basically trashes the Talon in this video...

 
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HondaTech

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And then a few months later he basically trashes the Talon in this video...

Probably paid by Polaris like everyone else.

Dirttrax TV use to suck Polaris off, but then again that's who sponsored them.
 
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1HasBeen

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I am not an ST fan by any means, but pointing out that the geometry of the rear suspension does not allow it to "pound the whoops" like an equally prepared Polarass or Canned Ham is not trashing it IMHO. The YXZ has a much worse issue in the rear. For some folks that is not an issue, but for me it is definitely a consideration. The car does have some shortcomings for serious desert and dunes riding, and I don't feel like I am bashing it. I hope the next generation Talon has real trailing arms, double shear mounts everywhere, and uni-balls instead of ball joints. There have been many discussions on this forum about other things, such as the air intake, etc. I want to see Honda crush Polarass, but to do it they will have to step up their game considerably, while maintaining Honda quality and reliability.

Blast away:)
 

PaulF

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Yes, he does trash the Talon...

Q: Stock for stock, KRX or Talon?
A: There is NOOOO competition. The KRX SMOOOOOKES the Talon.

Q: What are the positives/negatives?
A: Build quality is pretty good but not as good as the KRX. Engine/Trans is the best of the N/A machines and no belt BUT that is where the positives end!!!

When you are in business to sell parts/service, you shouldn't word your opinions that way. He could have selected much better verbiage and still got his points across.

Everything else he says about the Talon is probably true but he basically trashes it and places it in next to last place just above the YXZ. He ranked the machines and companies trying to sell stuff to various markets should NEVER do videos like this. They should keep their opinions/rankings to themselves or be MUCH more subtle in what they say. What he did was good for a couple of his offerings and bad for the rest.

I bought springs form them last year but had this video been out earlier, I would have gone elsewhere. I know the shortcomings of the machine, someone selling me hundreds or thousands of dollars of parts/service should not be bashing my purchase choice. He has left a sour taste in my mouth and I will pass it along from now on.

I'm glad I didn't have time to send my shocks to them (riding too much). ST will not be doing my shocks now, I will leave that to someone else.

Anyone interested in a full set of ST springs for an R?
 

HondaTech

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Yes, he does trash the Talon...

Q: Stock for stock, KRX or Talon?
A: There is NOOOO competition. The KRX SMOOOOOKES the Talon.

Q: What are the positives/negatives?
A: Build quality is pretty good but not as good as the KRX. Engine/Trans is the best of the N/A machines and no belt BUT that is where the positives end!!!

When you are in business to sell parts/service, you shouldn't word your opinions that way. He could have selected much better verbiage and still got his points across.

Everything else he says about the Talon is probably true but he basically trashes it and places it in next to last place just above the YXZ. He ranked the machines and companies trying to sell stuff to various markets should NEVER do videos like this. They should keep their opinions/rankings to themselves or be MUCH more subtle in what they say. What he did was good for a couple of his offerings and bad for the rest.

I bought springs form them last year but had this video been out earlier, I would have gone elsewhere. I know the shortcomings of the machine, someone selling me hundreds or thousands of dollars of parts/service should not be bashing my purchase choice. He has left a sour taste in my mouth and I will pass it along from now on.

I'm glad I didn't have time to send my shocks to them (riding too much). ST will not be doing my shocks now, I will leave that to someone else.

Anyone interested in a full set of ST springs for an R?
I'd take a Talon or YXZ over a Polaris pile anyday, they might have shortcomings, but atleast one of those isn't leaving me stranded.
 

1HasBeen

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I can guarantee that nobody despises Polarass more than I do, but spending ten years in the industry taught me a lot. First, it is difficult to break the Polarass cult mindset, and I am not using cult in a humorous way. It's real. Second, in the SxS business it is a different customer than most(not all)ATV buyers. It is like the muscle car days. People buy numbers, horsepower, suspension travel, who gets to the top of the dune first. I fought this battle for years, even with one of my partners who just could not see it. I still receive a quarterly dealer survey for a manufacturer we sold, and while I don't fill out the survey, I still receive results. Within those results is the attached market share chart published with the first quarter results. As you can see, in ATVs where there are a greater percentage of buyers who appreciate the gear drive, and inherent reliability, Honda is within shouting distance of Polarass. By contrast, in SxS you can see they are low single digits. The Talon is pretty new, and they will make headway as time goes on. Canned Ham was also an "also-ran", UNTIL the X3 arrived, and they were in the game of numbers. Now they have taken some share from Polarass. Yes the SxS numbers are blurred due to inclusion of utility machines. I am not loyal to any brand anymore, other than hoping Polarass gets crushed. I tried an X3, and the horsepower was great, and once I spent $2K on the suspemsion(NOT with ST, by the way)it rode and handled great, but from the crappy tinfoil construction requiring $$$ gussets galore, to being a royal PIA to work on, etc., I sent it down the road. We can all get POed at ST for his commentary, but I can assure you that if Honda is serious about wanting to take market share away from Polarass, and not being an also-ran, they are going to have to take a quantum leap forward with the next Talon.

Screen Shot 2020-05-25 at 2.02.53 PM.png
 

PaulF

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Talon R
I don't care that he dissed the Talon, the internet is full of haters. It is two other things that pisses me off.
  1. The complete 180 degree 2 faced s*** from video 1 to video 2. He talks up the Talon in video 1 and changes his mind in video 2. He is (allegedly) a suspension "expert" and should have immediately called out the crappy rear suspension geometry in the first video. Now that I look at it, it is obvious to me how "off" the rear geometry is but I am no "expert" like he claims to be.
  2. His degrading demeanor towards the Talon (and the YXZ for that matter). He forgets he is trying to sell product/service and even if he knows what he is talking about, his smug attitude is a total turn off. He could have easily pointed out the problems (and his solutions) without totally dismissing any brand/model. He is nothing but a poor salesman in my opinion. It now makes me wonder if he really knows what he is doing or just sells s*** to anyone with a buck.
He won't get another dollar out of me or anyone else that I can convince to go elsewhere.
 
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HondaTech

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I've only ever installed ST springs on one X before.

I don't believe it was worth the money or time, but we only drove it around the parking lot. But it wasn't great over parking blocks.
 
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lee

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Nice chart, finding this type of information in public is hard to do.
There are some nuances that it dose not quite capture, that ATV sales chart shows a huge build up before the '08 debacle.
But what it dose not show is the change in market share since then.
I heard honda held 60% and every one else was fighting for the scraps.
Now Popo is in that position.
They knew, or they should have.

The problem I have with the 2nd ST video is the lack of information.
The suspension geometry is bad?
How / why?
Dose he lack the technical know how to articulate it or was he dumbing it down for his customer base?
And all the good point in the 1st video was that just regurgitation of the honda press release to look smarter?

I'll stick to my p500.
If I make it up some trail every one will know it was driver skill (usually my wife's driver skill).
 

CID

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I luv me sum Talon R dual range, 6 spd, DCT, paddle shiftin', geared, NO DAMN BELT, sport SxS. 😎 The YXZ was in the running until I saw guys trying to rock climb the thing, the 5 speed gearing is still wrong after yearly attempts to get it right. The high rpm horsepower lit those tires right up in the climb, :eek: not my style. I really like being able to up shift on those long, flat cruising sections instead of spinning the motor up for no reason. :)
 

HondaTech

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I luv me sum Talon R dual range, 6 spd, DCT, paddle shiftin', geared, NO DAMN BELT, sport SxS. 😎 The YXZ was in the running until I saw guys trying to rock climb the thing, the 5 speed gearing is still wrong after yearly attempts to get it right. The high rpm horsepower lit those tires right up in the climb, :eek: not my style. I really like being able to up shift on those long, flat cruising sections instead of spinning the motor up for no reason. :)
Its the wrong engine for anything other than dunes.

I discussed Hondas benchmark for the Talon with some sales reps once and they really liked the YXZ chassis but said the engine was laughable for anything other than speed.
 

hondabob

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Well guys he is talking about the Talon X that has less travel and wheelbase. The R is better and he is right about adding more weight in the rear for better suspension performance. A spring kit from any of the suspension guys will make a huge improvement in the Talons. They probably get new machines every 2,000 to 3,000 miles and most will not break until 4,000 miles unless there are abused or race machines. My YXZ has 20,000 miles and no major breakage. My 2016 Pioneer 1000 had 19,000 miles when I sold it and no break downs but I did have to spend $40.00 on repair parts. I'm at 14,423 miles on my Talon and nothing broke. My RZR 1000 buddies are pissed about over $10,000 in repairs and 2 to 3 weeks in the shop for constant repairs. The 2018 RZR 1000 is close to 11,000 miles and the 2019 RZR Turbo is over 13,000 miles. They are getting tired of getting towed or riding in my Honda to get their truck and trailer. On the long runs I ride in the back so its easier to help them when they break down. He does mention the Honda had the best engine and trans and will be the best for reliability. The Turbo's are built a bit better but they need a lot of improvements for hard use. Just the belt drive maintenance is a PITA and expensive. The Kawasaki doesn't have enough HP for the weight so sales are poor. If they add a Turbo the wet clutch will be a problem. The bottom line is I really like my Talon. The new Yamaha to be announced next month may be good if it doesn't have belt drive. I have changed way to many belts on Polaris, Kawasaki, and Yamaha. Can-Am screwed my buddy in a big way so I refused to buy a Can-Am. Polaris is so bad I needed 3 of them so I would have something to drive. Polaris has a good fun factor but you need a new one every 3,000 miles. I think Polaris or Cam-Am may have a real transmission for 2021 or 2022.
 
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Hometeam

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I do think it's odd how he went from praising the Honda to bashing it. One thing that truly confused me was his comparison of the KRX (which I have looked at and honestly said that is the last sport side by side I would probably ever buy) It is a big pig that is mainly designed for rock crawling which he said the Talon out climbed it and was the best climbing machine. I do agree the suspension is too tight on the Talon but I don't think it is really a problem. And when running it hard I do like the lack of body roll that it has. Any track comparison that I have seen puts the talon and the YXZ above the KRX and the XX.... I have a Talon and a YXZ and it doesn't matter what they come out with a belt drive machine is just bad and I don't see myself ever owning one. Almost every video I see people are nervous about their belt or are fixing/replacing their belt. What a pain that is! My last couple weekends in Tennessee have all have had a lot of time spent jacking with Polaris crap! There are definitely things I wish were different about the Talon But I enjoy riding it hard, putting gas in, changing the fluids, rinse and repeat over and over again without problems. I like riding too much to stop and have to keep fixing junk. The YXZ can have tons of power added to it and I believe the Talon will eventually have the aftermarket for lots of power added to it also. In my mind that's the only thing Polaris and Can-Am truly have. I do love power and it's hard for me not to chase it but not at the expense of having to have a belt drive my machine.
 

hondabob

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X3 info and there is a lot of problems, Polaris too. Never blown a belt but they change it after a weekend in the dunes or every 1,000 miles. I just hate belt drive. This video is interesting. $2,500 to make a X3 more reliable.
Shock Therapy LIVE: Making A Trouble FREE X3

 
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