Stiffer Sway Bar

[lee]

Can anybody explain to me how the Raceco part keeps the frame from cracking?

Thank you.
I keep seeing that and wondering if I know less about mechanical engineering than I think.
Pretty sure my engineering sense is correct --> marketing and sales far out weighs engineering.

 

[HondaTech]

Can anybody explain to me how the Raceco part keeps the frame from cracking? I'm not knocking Raceco at all, I run a bunch of Jamie's stuff, but I can't see how that cures the frame cracking. I can see how it prevents the sway bar mounts from cracking and breaking off though.....

In my non professional opinion, I think these frames crack in those spots because the rear half of the frame flexes up and down while riding because it basically has zero support. The two tiny tubes that crack run from the rear bulkhead up to the B pillar cross bar and are the only two tubes that support the entire rear of the chassis. The stock "rollcage" does zero to support the rear section of the chassis in that respect because it's only held on with (4) 6mm bolts off the back of the frame. Aftermarket cages that bolt on to that same spot with no other rear supports are just as useless in regards to frame flex and cracking. Had Honda mounted the tubes to the top of the rear section of frame in the bed it would have helped with chassis flex a ton. I noticed this potential problem immediately after taking the plastics and bed off my Talon when I went to start my short course build. My solution to the problem was to cut all the tubes under the bed off, replace those with DOM tube of various thickness and size, and then tie the rear down bars of my cage directly into the frame. I raced the entire 2021 season of the Texas Outlaw short course Series and had no frame cracking issues to speak of.

View attachment 365107

View attachment 365108

So apparently I lied, the race car has broken the vertical tubes by the sway bar mount. I just never knew about it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

The sway bar mounts break due to being pushed inwards, the RaceCo brace goes all the way across and doesn't allow the mounts to be forced up and in.

They weren't designed to stop the bar from snapping.

 

[Smitty335]

So apparently I lied, the race car has broken the vertical tubes by the sway bar mount. I just never knew about it. 🤷🏻‍♂️

The sway bar mounts break due to being pushed inwards, the RaceCo brace goes all the way across and doesn't allow the mounts to be forced up and in.

They weren't designed to stop the bar from snapping.

We'll forgive you this one time! HA!

 

[Brazula4life]

I want to send my 1000-X4 shocks to Weller for a respring and re-valve. Rock crawling (sand hollow, moab, etc.) accounts for 80% of my driving and is what really wets my whistle. The other 20% is service road cruising with grandma and grandpa. I'm not a speed demon and don't drive particularly fast since my kids or (older) parents are usually with me.

I've read all (I think) the threads on Talon suspension setup, springs and tuning and am pretty certain that I want the full soft package (5-20mph). Im willing to adjust (slow) my driving style on the hardpacked roads to accommodate the new shock setup.

To help with body roll on pavement and dirt roads, I'm looking for a sway bar that is significantly stiffer than stock. The only two I have found are an Eibach for a two-seater and Double E unit that may or may not (?) fit a talon.

Eibach Rear Sway Bar Kit - Honda Talon 1000 X/R 2 Seat Model

Double E Sway Bar E2R-Honda Talon R / X

Hess Motorsports is proud to offer the Double E Racing industry leading, sway bar for the Honda Talons. We helped design and produce test this all bolt on kit. We had it abused it to make sure it held up to our standards in all applications. We have race tested this Bar on all of our race cars...

www.hess-motorsports.com

Does anyone have experience with these? @Lil_Steve @Brazula4life @PaulF
Will they work with a X4?
Can anyone recommend a sway bar other than the two mentioned above?

I have the double e on my talon r lv and works much better than stock. Has 5 adjustments

 

[CID]

I have the double e on my talon r lv and works much better than stock. Has 5 adjustments

Which do you settle on, stiffer, softer, middle?

 

[Brazula4life]

Which do you settle on, stiffer, softer, middle?

Middle is way better than stock, but I have on the second stiff one. I do rallycross and works pretty good for me

 

[prostreet66mustang]

Be very careful with well racing. They talk big but do not know the honda. They do yamaha. Put your own soft springs on it and quick disconect on the Eibach sway bar. Yes the rear frame is a weak point but if you are not hitting things at fast speed the frame should hold up. All of the raceco stuff is top of the line it is needed but if you have it unhook most of the time. Weller will not retune your shocks they just put in the fox fast travel pistons. If you really feel like you need to revalve Double E racing. And at NO means go to ST. Double E is super good and knows what he is talking about or even raceco. Burned by ST and Jayson Weller.

 

[Jon M]

Weller will not retune your shocks they just put in the fox fast travel pistons.

How do you know this?
What is a "fast travel piston"?

Im not that worried about the frame cracking. I don't do fast.
ST is a few miles from me but I don't plan on using them. Heard from multiple sources that they won't go as soft as I want it.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Be very careful with well racing. They talk big but do not know the honda. They do yamaha. Put your own soft springs on it and quick disconect on the Eibach sway bar. Yes the rear frame is a weak point but if you are not hitting things at fast speed the frame should hold up. All of the raceco stuff is top of the line it is needed but if you have it unhook most of the time. Weller will not retune your shocks they just put in the fox fast travel pistons. If you really feel like you need to revalve Double E racing. And at NO means go to ST. Double E is super good and knows what he is talking about or even raceco. Burned by ST and Jayson Weller.

Once you have your shocks/springs tuned by George at Double E Racing you understand what a good setup feels like and then realize what garbage the stuff you had before was. I've been telling people for the last couple years, here and other places, to call Double E Racing for shock tuning but for some reason they think because he does "race" shock tuning he can't help them. You can lead a horse to water..... 😆

 

[prostreet66mustang]

How do you know this?
What is a "fast travel piston"?

Im not that worried about the frame cracking. I don't do fast.
ST is a few miles from me but I don't plan on using them. Heard from multiple sources that they won't go as soft as I want it.

Fox makes a high flow piston which is what Weller put in, but the key thing is to then put the right shims or this washer type of item that controls how fast or slow the oil flows through the piston. ST drilled two holes in the stock pistons. Weller changed the pistons but either did not know or take the time to change the shims or valving. Then tore my rear apart after telling me it would be ready for the start of my race season knowing he did not have the parts to put them back together. Gave them back apart in a box and said OH WELL. Plus knowing sold me the wrong springs. Another shop put the backs together and still riding them a year later. Plus they either do not know or will not tell you what there spring rate is. And they are a sponsor of the races. Put the Eibach springs and sway bar on with 30" tires and learn to adjust the springs your self. It is not that hard and the 30" tires make it so on G out the shock will hit bottom before the car dose. You should be adjust your ride height as the springs settle any way.

 

[Jon M]

Once you have your shocks/springs tuned by George at Double E Racing you understand what a good setup feels like and then realize what garbage the stuff you had before was. I've been telling people for the last couple years, here and other places, to call Double E Racing for shock tuning but for some reason they think because he does "race" shock tuning he can't help them. You can lead a horse to water..... 😆

Does double E tune for specific riding? Race? Dune? Trail? Crawl? Or do they offer pre-packaged well-rounded setups?
I only ask because I do not want a well-rounded setup. I want suspension that is tuned for crawling and slow (5-15mph) super rocky trails.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Does double E tune for specific riding? Race? Dune? Trail? Crawl? Or do they offer pre-packaged well-rounded setups?
I only ask because I do not want a well-rounded setup. I want suspension that is tuned for crawling and slow (5-15mph) super rocky trails.

Every setup he does is custom, George is not a one trick pony. You tell him what you want and he gives that to you. He is very good at tuning rock crawling setups, he is the winning shock tuner for the KOH UTV class and is the exclusive tuner for Miller bros/Can-Am racing. George is probably one of the most well rounded UTV shock tuners out there but he doesn't do fancy videos like ST so he usually gets overlooked.

 

[DRZRon1]

something to be said for fancy marketing if you are on the receiving end of the transaction….

im blown away at their limit strap kit cost, same stuff sells on prp site for at least half the cost, just need to be smart enough to use a tape measure or use a phone and call them……

 

[Dankathy]

I would say yes, kinda the same feel . I like them, @Plumber32 swears by them

I would be very interested in seeing a picture of these mounted up. Did you use shock mount studs on the sway bar end, through bolts on the lower? Shaft or body end on the top? This seems like a very good comprise vs unhooking the sway bar completely.

 

[Remington]

I would be very interested in seeing a picture of these mounted up. Did you use shock mount studs on the sway bar end, through bolts on the lower? Shaft or body end on the top? This seems like a very good comprise vs unhooking the sway bar completely.

Remi’s Orange Crush!

Well, the day has finally come. I got a Talon! It been a long time coming. Ive been after one for a long time since they came out. My truck is pd off and I cant get a new truck cuz of availability for my needs so I searched and searched for a Talon! I wanted a live valve 2 seater in the worst...

hondasxs.com

 

[Sunday SendIT]

Have been running Double E racing sway bar for about 5k miles. LOVE it. I run everything from high-speed washes to Poison spider, behind the rocks, wipe out and all the other crazy stuff. I never disconnect the links and drive around most of the guys trying to pick a line.

HOWEVER, the frame is prone to breaking at the sway bar gussets. Get a Raceco sway bar frame brace, immediately, something I believe everybody should have.
After your frame breaks (mine broke in three spots) contact me and I'll hook you up with my custom gusset set. Yeah I know my welding skills need some work
.View attachment 364954View attachment 364953

what do you charge for your brace

 

[Davegun81]

@Plumber32 I have these on our sway bars and they help tons. Still gives you the swaybar feel but with more articulation. Plumber can explain it better. Mine is an x2 his is an x4

Speedway Short Gas-Filled Tube Shocks, Black Painted

These high-pressure gas shocks are designed for front or rear axle use. They come complete with 1/2" rubber bushings. 9-5/8" compressed length 14-5/8" extended length 5/8" I.D. eyelets Includes 4 steel sleeves with 5/8" O.D. and 1/2" I.D. Can be used with 5/8" or 1/2" bolts (Dimensionally...

www.speedwaymotors.com

How does it handle for high speed cornering with these shocks? Is it close to stock? Thanks

 

[Remington]

How does it handle for high speed cornering with these shocks? Is it close to stock? Thanks

Handles fine. Softer than stock but not alot
Just like anything else, dont take a corner like your in the Detroit Grand Prix and youll be fine