P1000 To keep or not to keep - value?

[CumminsPusher]

Bighorn I've had several rigs and oviously all but the 700 and the 1000 have been cvt. I 1000% prefer belt less but that's me I realize there are different vehicles for a reason and everyone likes what they like. Everyone has a different driving style. In my opinion the pioneer does the best at combating that with the modes paddles hi/lo but there are some like yourself that after all the miles you have behind the Yamaha may not adapt to the machine. It does get smoother and you get use to it some but it's different. My honest suggestion for you first of all bring the machine in and have Honda look at it if you do think somethings funny. The trans is electric controlled and may have had a hiccup. Honda has been very good with warrentee (other then water) wait till 100 do fluid changes change out diff fluid fix the heat with heat shield offered here(which will kill some noise as well) and drive it a bit. Be hard on it get use to it feel it out. If you still don't like it sell it. I doubt it'll be worth less coming into hunting season sell it then go back to the Yamaha which is dependable and move on. No harm done. Maybe you love it and wouldn't trade it for anything. But either way I think give it a shot.

 

[Admin]

 

[MontanaBighorn]

you don't seem to know how to drive it either.

Yeah, that must be it. Thanks for the assistance.

 

[500]

Yeah, that must be it. Thanks for the assistance.

Mine has smoothed out - however, I knew going into it that I would have a gear on gear feel and also feel the shifts. UTV wise, I went from a RZR, to a P500, to a Wolverine, now to the P1000. No, it's not as smooth as a CVT BC it can't be - it has to shift gears. It's also more jerky due to the gear on gear drive meaning you feel every little blip of the throttle due to it not being lost in the CVT. Like Cummins said, ride it, and if you don't like it - sell it. Yamaha and Kawasaki make some great SxS's and both have a dual clutch system that if I was going back to CVT I would demand. Loved it in my Grizzly and Wolverine. I prefer the gear feel, but like I've said before - to each his own. Good luck either way!

 

[hondabob]

Bighorn The Wolverine will have much better seats, storage, and suspension. I really liked mine but I wanted more power and I just hate belt drive. My buddy wanted it, I had a bit over 3,600 miles on it. The Yamaha has the best belt drive but I put on over 15,000 miles a year so belt drive is a problem for me. The Pioneer 1000 is my 14th side by side. I have over 3,000 miles on mine and yes I would like some improvements. Nice bucket seats and better shocks are on top of my list for improvements. I expect more choices from Honda for 2017 and they should announce next month. Polaris has way too many design and assembly problems, I had 3 of them and all had many failures. My Rhino's and Wolverine were good but my Yamaha YXZ 1000 has several problems but the 3 cylinder motor is worth making the necessary improvements. Like the guys say give it some more hours of use and you may like the 6 speed DCT. It is way different then a belt drive.

 

[Plumber32]

My 1000 is totally different at 400 miles and after the first oil change. The machine learns to shift the way you ride. You need to run it for awhile. As for the noise in the diff. Make sure your not in turf mode other than concrete and turf. I had a few questions rolling in my head on my first run. But it's literally perfect as it gets now it's broken in. Trust me when I say run it for a few hundred miles and don't baby the motor. The machine becomes you.

 

[Bartman]

Make sure your not in turf mode other than concrete and turf

Is running in turf mode not recommended ? because I'm almost always in turf, I'm going to have read that dam manual I guess.

 

[Eltobgi]

I've owned my P1000-5D for about three months and was finally able to take it out on a real trail to test it. I've ridden it a little around my ranch but there really isn't anything out there that requires four wheel drive so I haven't previously been able to test it fully.


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I loaded up and headed down to my favorite place on earth, the Pryor Mountain Wild Horse Range where the roughly 75 miles of official trails and another 300 miles of unofficial (private) trails provide a great opportunity to test both driver skills as well as machine capability.


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The scenery up here is always amazing and despite a reluctance to let out some of Montana's best kept secrets, I plan to set up an organized ride later this year. I typically come up here at least five or six times a year and will in fact return in two weeks to scatter my mother's ashes at Penn's Cabin pictured below.

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Notice the strong and proud ram only has three legs. I'm betting the wolf or cougar that took the other leg took quite a beating for him to be able to escape on only three legs.

I began the ride with optimism and enthusiasm; I would finally get to test out my P1K-5D and hopefully fall head over heels in love with it. Sadly it just didn't do enough to win me over.

I'll always give credit where due and there are many aspects of this machine that I absolutely love. The power-band is more than I can ever imagine needing and it's rare that I say that about any machine. As before, I just never found myself wanting more power. Bottom, middle and top the power was always impressive. Steering is very easy and precise and despite the weight of the machine I just didn't find that it pushed into corners. The suspension articulation is first class and has clearly been very well engineered. Engine braking is outstanding on this machine, especially with the ability to adjust how much you want with the paddle shifters. The paddle shifters are an excellent addition to the machine; more on that later. I continue to believe that this is the most refined machine in existence.

Sadly, I found that the gauge should be recessed into some type of pod so that you can actually read in in sunlight, the heat issue from the seat is real (I could warm up my lunch on it), and my Go Pro mounted on the roll-cage vibrated more so than on any other machine I own or have owned. I just couldn't get the video to stabilize from the vibrations and will have to research adding some type of vibration eliminator (rubber strips?) to the roll cage mount. The shocks on this machine are very poor. I've been riding these same trails for well over a decade on every machine I've ever owned but I've never felt so beaten up and worn out as I did after riding them in the Pioneer. I think that replacing them with some quality reservoir shocks (what would that do for the rear auto-level?) would go a long way toward fixing this. The side netting will be removed before I ever take this machine out again as all it did was clutter up an otherwise awesome view.

I only found one aspect of the machine unforgivable: the transmission. This DCT might be an excellent choice for trails that aren't constantly varying in elevation and terrain, but for any type of challenging rock crawling I found that it just cannot figure out the right gear it needs to be in. I continually found myself wanting either more or less gear and grew quite frustrated until remembering that I had the option of using the paddle shifters. The paddles seemed silly to me initially, but I now see why adding them was genius; it's because the auto cannot seem to figure out the appropriate gear (at least when rock crawling). I tried the same challenges with every selectable mode. Low range sport mode seemed to help a lot, but ultimately I had to run it in manual mode to maximize performance. The trouble with this however is that I want to focus on choosing the right line; I don't want to focus on being in the right gear. My only initial concern when I bought this machine was how well it would perform compared to a good (anything except Polaris) CVT transmission and this weekend I got my answer.

At one point I started into a long and steep climb (low range, auto/sport mode) and the machine never shifted out of 1st. The RPMs climbed nearly to redline before I backed off and as soon as I backed off it shifted hard into 2nd with an awful noise. I don't know what that was about and attempted to recreate it so that I could record it but it seemed to function just fine after that.

(Fast forward about a minute into it)
This is a sample video that only shows a small portion of the trails (sorry, Go Pro batteries last about 20 minutes but I do have some phone video I can add later) but it does demonstrate the vibrations, the pounding and also some of the odd noises the machine makes. Around 1.5 minutes into the video you can really hear the vibrations and odd noises (it sounds like a loose nut flopping around in the differential). I wish I had reserved one of the batteries for the more challenging sections of trail.

At this point I already know that the DCT transmission is not for me and I'm going back to CVT (anybody except Polaris, but likely just back to my old Rhino). I'm trying to decide if I should keep the Honda in hopes that my feelings will change over time, reserving it for ranch type work or cutting my losses and selling it.

If I do decide to sell it, what is a 2016 P1K-5D with 75 miles worth? This is my first Honda SxS and I've always heard how great the resell value is but don't know where to begin on pricing it? Aside from light brush marks on the roll-cage, you cannot distinguish it from a new unit.

First I would just like to say WOW! Those views are remarkable! Next I wanted to comment based upon my personal experience. Never having experienced anything like the DCT, I found myself in new territory. I too drove it in auto high and experienced some of the things you did. Like many have constantly said squeaks and rattles can be addressed through adjustment, as can heat through adding insulation. Learning how to operate an industry first transmission is something else. I guarantee many felt a little uncomfortable as you did having to traverse a familiar trail with familiar memories from prior rides with other sxs's. But I can't speak highly enough about it! I have about 700 miles on my P1K5D and absolutely love it. I have begun to address the heat, but as for the DCT transmission. Wow! I have figured it out. The paddle shifters and different modes allow you to customize your riding experience whether you are climbing, or rock crawling, or ridin agressively through winding trails. It takes a little getting used to! But it you give your P1K the opportunity to prove itself to you through your willingness to retrain yourself to this one of a kind riding experience you will not be disappointed! good luck!

 

[Plumber32]

Is running in turf mode not recommended ? because I'm almost always in turf, I'm going to have read that dam manual I guess.

What I've noticed was if I start spinning in turf it makes a grinding noise I think there's a clutch or something similar in the rear that makes a clicking noise. I first heard it when I canned it on some wet wood and was spinning fast.

 

[Plumber32]

About the ride... I've only bottomed out the front 1 time I can recall doing 45-50 and hit a decent sized pothole. I'm running a 28" tires on a 12" wheel at 8 psi they are like riding on marshmallows. Rock has to be softball sized for me to even notice I'm not on blacktop. So tires I'm sure have to do with the ride and psi

 

[perry]

Put it in sport mode and run the dog out of it after 100 miles. If you want a lower or high gear you the paddle shifter. Hit the trail. I have got about 300 or so miles on mine and going strong.

 

[franzw]

"Any ideas on why it hung in first and then slammed into second? I'm a little concerned that this is how clutches are being burned."

Mine would do this in low range when it was new. It "learned" or whatever the hell it does, very quickly and smoothed out though.

First of all , if he was in low driving that fast, that's just plain lame. He should have used high and turf mode. Nothing ion that trail would require any more.

 

[MontanaBighorn]

First of all , if he was in low driving that fast, that's just plain lame. He should have used high and turf mode. Nothing ion that trail would require any more.

Please read the entire post before responding. I stated the video was the beginning of the ride and that my camera was dead before reaching anything challenging. It does however show the vibrations and noises.

 

[Ned]

What I've noticed was if I start spinning in turf it makes a grinding noise I think there's a clutch or something similar in the rear that makes a clicking noise. I first heard it when I canned it on some wet wood and was spinning fast.

There too I don't get it. I run in turf mode most of the time. High, low, fast or slow my machine runs perfectly. In turf, you are putting the least strain on the clutches. If you are in the break-in period, when the clutches and the machine are just getting to know each other, turf mode affords less resistance (drive rotating mass) at engagement. Think of it this way, drop a clutch on a car without posi and one wheel spins pretty easily even with little horse power and compare that to dropping a clutch on a 4wd truck or jeep. The clutches and drive train take a much harder beating trying to move all of that mass. I broke mine in using mostly turf and it's smooth powerful and pulls heavy loads up some pretty good slopes. No chatter, throttle tip-in is smoother including reverse. When I have said before that I have no trouble with the clutches at all driving mine hard, as you should be able to with this machine, at least one person who had clutch problems said "you will" well I"m pushing 400 miles and it's better all the time.

 

[Plumber32]

There too I don't get it. I run in turf mode most of the time. High, low, fast or slow my machine runs perfectly. In turf, you are putting the least strain on the clutches. If you are in the break-in period, when the clutches and the machine are just getting to know each other, turf mode affords less resistance (drive rotating mass) at engagement. Think of it this way, drop a clutch on a car without posi and one wheel spins pretty easily even with little horse power and compare that to dropping a clutch on a 4wd truck or jeep. The clutches and drive train take a much harder beating trying to move all of that mass. I broke mine in using mostly turf and it's smooth powerful and pulls heavy loads up some pretty good slopes. No chatter, throttle tip-in is smoother including reverse. When I have said before that I have no trouble with the clutches at all driving mine hard, as you should be able to with this machine, at least one person who had clutch problems said "you will" well I"m pushing 400 miles and it's better all the time.

I use 2wd when aggressive driving now. The turf mode doesn't turn it into a true open diff. Its really a semi open diff.

 

[Ned]

I use 2wd when aggressive driving now. The turf mode doesn't turn it into a true open diff. Its really a semi open diff.

No disagreement here, as with 4wd vs 4 lock. My point was how much resistance during the initial clutch engagement.

 

[Boomboom907]

My 1000 is totally different at 400 miles and after the first oil change. The machine learns to shift the way you ride. You need to run it for awhile. As for the noise in the diff. Make sure your not in turf mode other than concrete and turf. I had a few questions rolling in my head on my first run. But it's literally perfect as it gets now it's broken in. Trust me when I say run it for a few hundred miles and don't baby the motor. The machine becomes you.

dude im so glad you came around and like the machine man! its great to hear your happy. its amazing the difference between 0-100 miles vs 300-400. absolutely different rig.

for me, the oil change was my holy cow moment. after that shifting is un noticable. its amazing.

 

[Boomboom907]

well dude, i didnt read through the other posts, i just want to respond to your initial assessment.

firstly, no argument about wanting a lower gear. i hear that. however, talking about not finding which gear it needs in auto for technical stuff is kind of a silly argument. you have an on the fly automatic manual transmission. if your going through a technical..... why.... in the world... are you in automatic?

if you finish your technical, slap it back into auto. or dont. after 5 mins of driving in manual mode you forget about shifting, just like in a manual car. i can be on the phone, drinking coffe, shift, and pay attention to the road. hell its harder to drink coffee than shifting. do i think thats smart?no. point is, it becomes second nature, and im not smart. err.


now then, for me, my machine was rough. LOUD clicks, loud bangs, heavy shifts, annoying squeaks. it just seemed like something was about to blow apart. drove it an hour out from honda to GF parents house. jesus. it was such an overwhelming upgrade from my polaris, but by the time i got there i had a huuuuge headache.

then after about 100 miles, it started to mellow slightly. after 200 (im a bad boy) i changed my oil.

holy. mother. ofgod.

changing the oil turned the slightly quieter clicks and pops from shifting literally into non existant things of the past. you cant tell when it shifts from anything other than the engine gets quieter. my low is still kind of harsh, but the soliniod sounds are quiter. i dont run low as often as high for obvious reasons (not many people do)

so, my suggestion to you, is if your on a technical trail run manual. if your on a groomer with an occasional mud hole, throttle through the shallow end. if its a bog, throw it in low and manual.

im in alaska. our trails are typical. hard dirt, sharp rock, deep water, bogs, clay, silt, you name it we have it. this rig has outperformed my underpowered polaris in everything other than the silt dunes at jims (im guessing from the shorter wheelbase and extra 600 pounds? and the polaris stocker tires stomped these crappy tires)

put 100 miles, change oil, and put another 400. then if you dont like it get rid of the thing and get something you do like. you spent alot of money on it. dont feel obligated to keep it if your a belt guy. i was, and im so over that crap. i dont miss my polaris one bit. other than the lurk. i did like the belt for that reason. pulling ahead a half inch was much easier with the belt. but as far as power and suspension, anything other than a general are sad comparisons.(still lackluster AF) maybe a defender, although that thing looks like a tractor gone pug.

you wont catch me dead in anything else. not till honda releases their 8 speed tranny or their answer to the rzr.

also. this pig is quiet. we got a viking. i feel sorry for the clowns in that.

also, just re read your posts. 75 miles? dude you have no clue how smooth this thing gets. no where even close.

 

[RichardM]

I'm on day 3 of a 5 day riding trip over the passes and mining trails of the Alpine Loop in Colorado. 225 miles on the machine now (1000-5 dlx) and am really loving it. If I don't like it's gear choice, I veto it with the paddle. I really like that it resumes the auto mode. Got the heat shield and it makes a big difference. I will be calling in to complain about the heat.
I'm riding with family and they all have late model polaris and I think this Honda is a much better machine. Rode all day over two 12, 000+ ft mountain passes and mining trails yesterday. I wouldn't have anything but this DCT after those decents.

 

[sharp]

I'm on day 3 of a 5 day riding trip over the passes and mining trails of the Alpine Loop in Colorado. 225 miles on the machine now (1000-5 dlx) and am really loving it. If I don't like it's gear choice, I veto it with the paddle. I really like that it resumes the auto mode. Got the heat shield and it makes a big difference. I will be calling in to complain about the heat.
I'm riding with family and they all have late model polaris and I think this Honda is a much better machine. Rode all day over two 12, 000+ ft mountain passes and mining trails yesterday. I wouldn't have anything but this DCT after those decents.

That's awesome! Post some pics if you get a chance.

 

[MontanaBighorn]

Mine would do this in low range when it was new. It "learned" or whatever the hell it does, very quickly and smoothed out though.

Thanks for the validation. It was abrupt and loud and I was a bit concerned about possible damage. I'd love to get my hands on a salvage DCT just to take it apart. I can read a manual front to back and never understand it as well as disassembly/reassembly.