What happened? We need more engine guys

Brett002

Brett002

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I remember when the Pioneer 1000 first came out and there were fellas on here that were modding the crap out of that engine to find the best performance gains with other Honda parts from the Africa Twin motorcycle. Then the Talon arrived, and they took parts from it to put into their P1000 to get even more performance gains all the way down to the ECU. Has anyone tried playing with the Africa Twin cams in the Talon? I'm not saying it's a great idea... but there used to be guys on here that were willing to be the guinea pigs for the rest of us on modding their utv to get the best gains possible (not me). Swapping the Africa Twin cams to the Talon is just an example. I know some things can hinder performance too. With what is offered by Honda with this powertrain there has to be something in the Africa Twin, Talon, and/or P1000. That offers some gains when swapping stuff around. I'll be the first to admit that I probably would never crack open my Talon engine, but it sure was cool to see the ideas that those people had when it came to adding performance. There was even a guy that (I don't remember who) basically had the Talon engine in his P1000. He replaced almost every part on his P1000 engine to have the Talon upgrades. If I remember right the Talon has a upgraded throttle body and intake. These parts alone would wake up any P1000 to be an animal. It still wouldn't ride like a Talon, but I think some guys are looking for bolt ons like this to beat their buddy in a drag race, or to spin the tires where they wouldn't spin before. Now that Honda has the Africa Twin 1100 I task Talon/ P1000 owners with finding out how we get those extra "100" cc's in our UTV's...

I don't claim to be an expert on any of this. Please don't crucify me for bringing this up. There has to be something left on the table though. Something has to have been overlooked as far as waking these things up.
 
Remington

Remington

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I remember when the Pioneer 1000 first came out and there were fellas on here that were modding the crap out of that engine to find the best performance gains with other Honda parts from the Africa Twin
Those fellas are still around just quiet and peek in now and again. I did some of that back then also. Anyway, those guys have moved on to other things mainly different sxs’s.
@snuffnwhisky has done alot of the cam, piston and reprogramming stuff. But its mostly to the earlier rigs. Look up his past posts, majority is that stuff.
 
Brett002

Brett002

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  1. 500

  2. Talon R
Thanks @Remington I thought it was him but didn't want to tag him just in case it wasn't. How about it @snuffnwhisky? What's your take on the Africa Twins extra 100 cc's and where did they add it? What was the final mod list on your P1000? If you were going to throw some parts at a Talon or P1000 engine, what would they be?

Keep in mind guys that once certain performance mods come into play, reliability starts to go out the window.
 
DRZRon1

DRZRon1

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May 11, 2019
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I remember when the Pioneer 1000 first came out and there were fellas on here that were modding the crap out of that engine to find the best performance gains with other Honda parts from the Africa Twin motorcycle. Then the Talon arrived, and they took parts from it to put into their P1000 to get even more performance gains all the way down to the ECU. Has anyone tried playing with the Africa Twin cams in the Talon? I'm not saying it's a great idea... but there used to be guys on here that were willing to be the guinea pigs for the rest of us on modding their utv to get the best gains possible (not me). Swapping the Africa Twin cams to the Talon is just an example. I know some things can hinder performance too. With what is offered by Honda with this powertrain there has to be something in the Africa Twin, Talon, and/or P1000. That offers some gains when swapping stuff around. I'll be the first to admit that I probably would never crack open my Talon engine, but it sure was cool to see the ideas that those people had when it came to adding performance. There was even a guy that (I don't remember who) basically had the Talon engine in his P1000. He replaced almost every part on his P1000 engine to have the Talon upgrades. If I remember right the Talon has a upgraded throttle body and intake. These parts alone would wake up any P1000 to be an animal. It still wouldn't ride like a Talon, but I think some guys are looking for bolt ons like this to beat their buddy in a drag race, or to spin the tires where they wouldn't spin before. Now that Honda has the Africa Twin 1100 I task Talon/ P1000 owners with finding out how we get those extra "100" cc's in our UTV's...

I don't claim to be an expert on any of this. Please don't crucify me for bringing this up. There has to be something left on the table though. Something has to have been overlooked as far as waking these things up.
Hess Stage 2 or add a turbo or guys like slowpoke who is racing NA that is doing every trick in the book to get the most ponies out of his ride and sure there are other engine builders squeezing something out of it

the Hess NA stage 2 seems to be one package available - Hess is claiming 30% at rear wheels so call it 130HP with their package\tune\plus exhaust

there are other little gains such as a tunes\intake\exhaust but most of them seem to produce a dismal return vs. $$'s


would seem to me the pioneer would be out of suspension well before the motor mods so the juice may not be worth the squeeze
 
Brett002

Brett002

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  2. Talon R
What you think? @SLOWPOKE693 Would you chime in with your mods for the guys that lay in bed at night and wonder?

How do you feel about a fully manual Talon on the racetrack? Where they adding the 100 cc's from the Africa Twin 1100?

I agree with you @DRZRon1 the P1000 would be out of suspension way before the mods would come into play. That's why I have a Talon R now and my old P1000 is on down the road. Down south where I'm from these big portal rigs could take full advantage of the gains these mods could achieve. I'd love to see a Pioneer 1000 skim a mud hole or cover the roof in cow patty sized globs of mud. No concern for clutches or not getting the tires to spin over.

This post is for the people like @SLOWPOKE693 who isn't afraid to split the cases and have a go at it. It's these people that push the boundaries on what is possible with this engine/ drivetrain. Heck he probably knows these sxs's so well he could have the motor out in ten minutes. It's not the motor removal I'm concerned about. It's what could I bolt to it while it's out to smoke a can am turbo rr. One can dream right?
 
CID

CID

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...

How do you feel about a fully manual Talon on the racetrack?
I grew up on manual transmissions but when the automatics of the day (long ago) started to beat the manuals on the drag strip, even with their huge loss of power and slippage, it became apparent to me that, while manuals are more efficient, they couldn't compete with the speed of an automatic's shifting.

The DCT auto combines the best of both, incredibly fast shifting with minimal power loss (inevitable in any transmission). When I'm in the mood to take control of the Talon's shifting, it quickly becomes obvious that I can't compete with the speed of electronics.

I drove a YXZ with manual and hated it for being so slow.

Disclaimer - I'm waaaaay past taking anything apart to improve it, I'm happy with what Honda built in the Talon and accept its shortcomings.
 
SLOWPOKE693

SLOWPOKE693

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Africa Twin parts are useless in a Talon engine, to many differences for anything from the AT to fit the Talon without major modifications. Cams from BC are better and cheaper, crank from an AT doesn't work in a Talon block and the AT also has 2 balance shafts instead of one so even if it did work the engine wouldn't be in balance. There are a few guys running AT heads on a Talon engine but the amount of modifications and custom parts needed to make it work doesn't justify the costs.

I'm not using anything trick in my engine and it has no problem keeping up and beating other well built N/A cars. I run a set of 11.5-1 pistons, a BC stage 4 cam, shaved and ported head with +1mm valves, a ported throttle body by MaxBore, a velocity stack intake, Injector Dynamics 1300 injectors with their return fuel system, a modified fuel sending unit with a bigger than stock fuel pump and Ignite E90 fuel. Tuning was done by Erik at PPEI.

Edit: I'm also running an HMF header with a pair of Schoenfeld micro sprint mufflers.
 
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Brett002

Brett002

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  1. 500

  2. Talon R
I couldn't agree with you more @CID I do love my Talon. I hate to say it, but I like it way more than I did my P1000 and I loved that thing. I sold it with over 25,000 miles. Glad that thing couldn't talk.

I guess I will just have to settle for this as @osobad has mentioned. My Talon is already red.

2fimages2fdetailed2f102fthis sticker adds 10hp

Still curious about those 100 cc's though. Where did they add them?

@SLOWPOKE693 Does the Africa Twin heads flow better? What's the reasoning behind people adding them to the Talon?

What are "BC" cams? I sure would love to take a rip with you in your race car. You know to see what I'm missing and can't afford. Lol

Does anyone happen to know the winning Florida lotto numbers for the next drawing? Asking for a friend. Just kidding it's me, I need them.
 
SLOWPOKE693

SLOWPOKE693

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I couldn't agree with you more @CID I do love my Talon. I hate to say it, but I like it way more than I did my P1000 and I loved that thing. I sold it with over 25,000 miles. Glad that thing couldn't talk.

I guess I will just have to settle for this as @osobad has mentioned. My Talon is already red.

View attachment 429120

Still curious about those 100 cc's though. Where did they add them?

@SLOWPOKE693 Does the Africa Twin heads flow better? What's the reasoning behind people adding them to the Talon?

What are "BC" cams? I sure would love to take a rip with you in your race car. You know to see what I'm missing and can't afford. Lol

Does anyone happen to know the winning Florida lotto numbers for the next drawing? Asking for a friend. Just kidding it's me, I need them.


The AT head has symmetrical ports and both cylinders flow the same amount. Our Talon heads.... Not so much. I've been told an AT head is good for 5% more airflow than a Talon head based on flow bench numbers but don't know what that amounts to as far as HP or performance.

BC = Brian Crower (Not to be confused with Daniel Crower his brother who makes s*** cams for Hess)

This is where all the Talon guys shop for go fast engine parts...

Go fast fuel system parts:
 
Remington

Remington

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What's your take on the Africa Twins extra 100 cc's and where did they add it?
Mostly in the valve body.
What was the final mod list on your P1000?
Can be found here. Mainly the Snuff tune
If you were going to throw some parts at a Talon or P1000 engine, what would they be?
a good proper tune. I have the Snuff tune and as Snuff said when he had it, “be careful that thing is a Ripper” and that it is. Nothing added besides but protected better air flow.
Its very fast and quick. I couldnt imagine anything else added to it. On a flat straight away she can be hard to Handel at times when she hits 84mph before I come to curve or slow down point. Is a turbo cool. Yes. But I think u need to really think about your conditions for the need and will it be that beneficial to you. Not for me. This thing is wicked enough.
Now if your racing your machine. Totally different ball game totally different.
 
Remington

Remington

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What was the final mod list on your P1000?
The main mod was a Talon ECU with mods Snuff did for improvements. Without saying something I cant or shouldn't to get folks fired up. Ill let him explain if he feels.

I was a ford Diesel engine development mechanic out of college for 6-1/2yrs.
After some frequent changes as there is in the Auto industry up here. I have moved on to Stand by Generac Generator engines and repair in that field everything from Ford, Chrysler, Cherry,Mitsubishi, Diesel and The new Generac made motors with there own throttle body/Bosh Actuator's, flex plates and controlled injection as my specialty the last 20yrs. Ive tore apart and rebuilt many Yami banshees, blasters Honda 2 strokes in quads many canned ham sleds and Poo Poo sleds in my day as well. I havent broke down a African Twin in many many years. That knowledge would not hold up to the ones today. I have no desire to have that extra complication in my head more than what I already deal with on a daly basis lol.
 
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