Where my electricians at?

[The Green Goat]

1000V merger is more than plenty - hopefully someone has one you can borrow - probably has a 250v and 500V setting - 250V is fine for what you have.

what he said above - check all connections for corrosion/loose terminals from house to barn - take connections off at barn and power it up and check voltage with the wires hanging in the air - just process of elimination


just have to ask - why 100A at 240V - jeez........I went down that same road 15 years ago and said WTF am I doing, put a 60A service in and called it good - I run a large upright air compressor - the cheap HF 120V welders, a freaking house bake oven for baking out powder coated parts, lites, beer fridge, pool pump, etc. and never ever ever was short on juice. load factor is the technical term for sizing it down - lol.......good luck

Eventual plan is to put together a small hobby wood/machine shop. I planned it all out a few years ago and IIRC, 60a was cutting it close if a few things were running together, so I figured 100a just for safe measure. It's overkill.

 

[Admin]

 

[DRZRon1]

Eventual plan is to put together a small hobby wood/machine shop. I planned it all out a few years ago and IIRC, 60a was cutting it close if a few things were running together, so I figured 100a just for safe measure. It's overkill.

cant hide money - lol.......

 

[Phantomhunter1]

Will do this tomorrow. Thanks!

Refer to my 1st post. Post #2 on this topic. Start there with sub panel.

 

[The Green Goat]

Refer to my 1st post. Post #2 on this topic. Start there with sub panel.

I was mucking around in there today but forgot to check that. Will do.

 

[The Green Goat]

Refer to my 1st post. Post #2 on this topic. Start there with sub panel.

So, the feed to the barn is 3 wires. 2 hots and a ground. (A) hot going to one phase, (B) to another, and the ground to the ground bar. 120v neutrals and grounds return to the same bar.

 

[Phantomhunter1]

So, the feed to the barn is 3 wires. 2 hots and a ground. (A) hot going to one phase, (B) to another, and the ground to the ground bar. 120v neutrals and grounds return to the same bar.

View attachment 441264

Yeah. Those grounds need to be removed from neutral bar. Install a ground bar screwed to the panel. Attach all grounds to that along with a ground wire that goes to a ground rod near sub panel.

 

[Phantomhunter1]

So, the feed to the barn is 3 wires. 2 hots and a ground. (A) hot going to one phase, (B) to another, and the ground to the ground bar. 120v neutrals and grounds return to the same bar.

View attachment 441264

It looks like you don't have a neutral wire coming from house attached to your neutral bar. I see the white wire (typically neutral) is wrapped with black tape which would indicate a hot wire and you said you had 245 volts which would be right but you're missing a wire. Should be 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground wire coming into sub panel (4 wires total) for your 245 volt. The wires that you have are set up for 120 volt feed unless I can't see something. That white wire should go to neutral bar and all grounds removed and done like I said earlier.

 

[Phantomhunter1]

It looks like you don't have a neutral wire coming from house attached to your neutral bar. I see the white wire (typically neutral) is wrapped with black tape which would indicate a hot wire and you said you had 245 volts which would be right but you're missing a wire. Should be 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground wire coming into sub panel (4 wires total) for your 245 volt. The wires that you have are set up for 120 volt feed unless I can't see something. That white wire should go to neutral bar and all grounds removed and done like I said earlier.

Then after you're done with that make sure they're hooked up to proper connections in house panel/barn breaker.

 

[Tom_C]

Others have told you what you need. Def need a proper neutral. And, I can't see any bonding ground screw (green) so not sure that box is properly grounded?

ADDED: But, you don't want the box ground and neutral connected together, but I meant that currently I don't see the box is grounded, unless that screw all the way on the right of the neutral bar is bonding to the box.

 

[The Green Goat]

It looks like you don't have a neutral wire coming from house attached to your neutral bar. I see the white wire (typically neutral) is wrapped with black tape which would indicate a hot wire and you said you had 245 volts which would be right but you're missing a wire. Should be 2 hots, a neutral, and a ground wire coming into sub panel (4 wires total) for your 245 volt. The wires that you have are set up for 120 volt feed unless I can't see something. That white wire should go to neutral bar and all grounds removed and done like I said earlier.

Yea, I don't know why they've only got a 3wire setup.

I'm still curious where this mystery voltage is coming from though. If I'm understanding it correctly, it would have to be coming from one of those 4 romex cables or perhaps some damaged insulation in the sub panel feed wires, right?

 

[The Green Goat]

Others have told you what you need. Def need a proper neutral. And, I can't see any bonding ground screw (green) so not sure that box is properly grounded?

ADDED: But, you don't want the box ground and neutral connected together, but I meant that currently I don't see the box is grounded, unless that screw all the way on the right of the neutral bar is bonding to the box.

It's probably not. I'm the second owner of this house and if the retard that wired this barn is the same one who filled out the breaker label sheet, then I'm not surprised.

 

[Phantomhunter1]

Yea, I don't know why they've only got a 3wire setup.

I'm still curious where this mystery voltage is coming from though. If I'm understanding it correctly, it would have to be coming from one of those 4 romex cables or perhaps some damaged insulation in the sub panel feed wires, right?

Well if your breaker inside house is wired to feed barn with 240 volts like you're indicating and the way sub panel is wires you're feeding 120 volts to your sub panel neutral bar. Should not be like that.

 

[Tom_C]

Oh, I'm not sure what the code is, but pretty sure you'd want a main disconnect in that box. 150' from the main panel and no disconnect in that sub? Sketchy.

 

[The Green Goat]

So here's what I'm thinking in order to make this thing safe. Eventually, I'll probably pull a 4wire setup out there to run future 240v tools, but that's not going to be today. In the meantime:

-Install a proper grounding bus bar on the panel and move all grounds to it
-Pull that white 'hot' wire off and connect it to the neutral bar in the sub panel
-Pull that same white 'hot' wire off it's 120v feed in the main house panel and connect it to the house neutral bar.

This should provide a safe 120v to the sub panel, correct?

 

[Tom_C]

So here's what I'm thinking in order to make this thing safe. Eventually, I'll probably pull a 4wire setup out there to run future 240v tools, but that's not going to be today. In the meantime:

-Install a proper grounding bus bar on the panel and move all grounds to it
-Pull that white 'hot' wire off and connect it to the neutral bar in the sub panel
-Pull that same white 'hot' wire off it's 120v feed in the main house panel and connect it to the house neutral bar.

This should provide a safe 120v to the sub panel, correct?

Exactly what I was gonna say.

You're going to have to move your breakers in the sub. You wouldn't want to tie the 2 phases together in the sub panel (although that would work, it would be a bad idea), so you'll have to combine the 4 circuits into 2.

OR, go ahead and swap the sub panel to one with a main disconnect and more than 4 circuits. Then you would have room for your 4 existing circuits.

 

[Jankyeye]

So here's what I'm thinking in order to make this thing safe. Eventually, I'll probably pull a 4wire setup out there to run future 240v tools, but that's not going to be today. In the meantime:

-Install a proper grounding bus bar on the panel and move all grounds to it
-Pull that white 'hot' wire off and connect it to the neutral bar in the sub panel
-Pull that same white 'hot' wire off it's 120v feed in the main house panel and connect it to the house neutral bar.

This should provide a safe 120v to the sub panel, correct?

Just remember that doing that will kill one of your hot legs so any breaker/circuit on that leg wont work anymore.

 

[DRZRon1]

Exactly what I was gonna say.

Yes - or install a 30 amp or bigger single pole breaker or double pole 60 and just use one leg and run your hot wire into the breaker and “back feed “ the panel - this will give you a disconnect at the barn - plus what all they said above - you are getting great technical advice

Technically you have no neutral, running everything back on the safety ground wires - who knows when it ain’t wired right to begin with - get it wired correctly and then see what you have.

 

[Phantomhunter1]

So here's what I'm thinking in order to make this thing safe. Eventually, I'll probably pull a 4wire setup out there to run future 240v tools, but that's not going to be today. In the meantime:

-Install a proper grounding bus bar on the panel and move all grounds to it
-Pull that white 'hot' wire off and connect it to the neutral bar in the sub panel
-Pull that same white 'hot' wire off it's 120v feed in the main house panel and connect it to the house neutral bar.

This should provide a safe 120v to the sub panel, correct?

Sounds good

 

[Scoop]

I planned it all out a few years ago and IIRC, 60a was cutting it close if a few things were running together, so I figured 100a just for safe measure. It's overkill.

Same here @ the previous house. This was in the new pole barn I built in 2013. Needless to say, the electrical inspector was pleased with my work.

You mentioned eventually pulling a 4-wire setup out there to run future 240v tools. If you trench and install conduit, always add an extra (unused) one for future use. Pull a string through it and put something at each end so you can't pull the string through. Then when you do pull something through, pull another piece of string WITH it (and add something to each end of the new string). That way, you never have to snake a damn thing through. This was from the house to the pole barn. One was for electrical, one was for CSST NG, and then the extra one.

 

[Gator]

Look for 2-2-4-6 wire for 100 Amp barn service. It's commonly called "mobile home feed". Lowes even sells it bulk for around $4 a foot. We have a local electrical supplier called Dickman that sells the same wire for around $2 a foot. Maybe check if you have a Loeb supplier near you.

This is note worthy information. Lowes and Home Depot are NOT your cheapest options for electrical supplies.