P1000 2020 1000-5 acts crazy at 4k rpm

[Msmdomination]

I think I've narrowed it down to the EOT sensor. However, it seems that every sensor I test is bad!!

I don't have the MCS, I'm just using a multimeter. Has anyone ever used an MCS? Would it give a different reading than a multimeter somehow?

I'm seriously thinking about buying one. Its my understanding they work on all Hondas. Is that right?

 

[DRZRon1]

no expert here - that mcs is the plug in scanner - so yes will be different than you DVM -

you do have a manual - correct ?

The manual with be specific on how to check each sensor

we will help as much as possible, but at some point you will either need the manual to go thru the diagnostic steps or take it to a KNOWLEDGEABLE repair shop

 

[HondaTech]

I think I've narrowed it down to the EOT sensor. However, it seems that every sensor I test is bad!!

I don't have the MCS, I'm just using a multimeter. Has anyone ever used an MCS? Would it give a different reading than a multimeter somehow?

I'm seriously thinking about buying one. Its my understanding they work on all Hondas. Is that right?

The only issue is the software, you'd have yo have access to a dealer who would give it to you.

EOT codes are rare, sounds like a grounding issue still. Alot of the engine sensors use the engine as ground instead of a dedicated wired ground on the sensor.

Inspect the large connector down by the clutch cover, the EOT sensor runs through that connector. I don't have access to a manual atm to see exactly what that code should make the unit do.

 

[Mark in Northern Iowa]

Here you can find the codes, in both places EOT is 44-1 and 44-2

P1000 - Diagnostic Trouble Code(DTC), 2016-2020 Honda Pioneer 1000, ALL

I could not find these all in one place, so I thought I would add them. . Check Engine Light blinking, Page 4-9. . Gear Indicator Light blinking, Page 11-11. . Electric Power Steering(EPS) Light blinking, Page 24-11. . Symptom Troubleshooting, Page 4-6. . HOW TO pull stored codes, page 4-8. ...

hondasxs.com

P1000 - Diagnostic Trouble Code(DTC), 2016-2020 Honda Pioneer 1000, ALL

I could not find these all in one place, so I thought I would add them. . Check Engine Light blinking, Page 4-9. . Gear Indicator Light blinking, Page 11-11. . Electric Power Steering(EPS) Light blinking, Page 24-11. . Symptom Troubleshooting, Page 4-6. . HOW TO pull stored codes, page 4-8. ...

hondasxs.com

Both referring you to 11-30 and 11-31 for troubleshooting
.
44-2 does give this handy tidbit of information
Engine operates below 3,000 rpm
.
Have a good day

 

[Msmdomination]

Thanks guys. Yes, I have the manual and have been following it. However, it only says how to troubleshoot this sensor with the MCS. Not with a multi meter.

The only reason the EOT sensor stood out is because the manual says it's over voltage fail safe is to operate below 3k RPM and the gear indicator will go blank, which, add in the spitting and sputtering is exactly what happened to me.

The only problem is, it should still start and operate below 3k RPM, and I don't have any codes. None.

I rechecked every ground for the third time yesterday. Taking them completely off and back on. Here is what I know:

- EOT fail safe matches symtoms before I stopped when I got home.
- I have proper voltage to the coils (good relay, etc.)
- Do Not have proper initial voltage at the coils when turning over
- Do Not have any spark
- I have proper continuity from EOT sensor to the PCM
- IACV fails at step 4 (ohms not within spec)

I ordered new coils and EOT sensor. If neither one of those fixes it I guess I'll have no choice but to find a dealer. Anyone have recommendations in Alabama or Tennessee?

 

[Mark in Northern Iowa]

I know you said there are no flashing lights.
Have you tried to see if there are any stored faults?
.
In the Service Manual, page 4-8 shows how to pull codes
.
This is from page 4-8
.
When retrieving the stored OTC, refer to the following procedure.
Remove the OLC from the dummy connector (page 4-8).
Short the OLC [1] using the special tool.
TOOL:
SCS service connector [2] 070PZ-2Y30100
CONNECTION: Brown/red - Green
Turn the ignition switch ON (I), read and note the MIL blinks, and refer to the
troubleshooting index:

• PGM Fl system: page 4-9
• OCT system: page 11-11

NOTE:
• If the PCM has any OTC in its memory, the MIL will start blinking.
.
The special tool they talk about is just a jumper wire.
jump: Brown/red - Green
.

And NO, you can't laugh at my diagram. ☝️haha
.
Then turn on ignition switch
count the flashes
.
Hoping something shows up to point us to the problem.
.
Have a good day

 

[HondaTech]

Thanks guys. Yes, I have the manual and have been following it. However, it only says how to troubleshoot this sensor with the MCS. Not with a multi meter.

The only reason the EOT sensor stood out is because the manual says it's over voltage fail safe is to operate below 3k RPM and the gear indicator will go blank, which, add in the spitting and sputtering is exactly what happened to me.

The only problem is, it should still start and operate below 3k RPM, and I don't have any codes. None.

I rechecked every ground for the third time yesterday. Taking them completely off and back on. Here is what I know:

- EOT fail safe matches symtoms before I stopped when I got home.
- I have proper voltage to the coils (good relay, etc.)
- Do Not have proper initial voltage at the coils when turning over
- Do Not have any spark
- I have proper continuity from EOT sensor to the PCM
- IACV fails at step 4 (ohms not within spec)

I ordered new coils and EOT sensor. If neither one of those fixes it I guess I'll have no choice but to find a dealer. Anyone have recommendations in Alabama or Tennessee?

Coils are never the problem, ever.

 

[DRZRon1]

Thanks guys. Yes, I have the manual and have been following it. However, it only says how to troubleshoot this sensor with the MCS. Not with a multi meter.

The only reason the EOT sensor stood out is because the manual says it's over voltage fail safe is to operate below 3k RPM and the gear indicator will go blank, which, add in the spitting and sputtering is exactly what happened to me.

The only problem is, it should still start and operate below 3k RPM, and I don't have any codes. None.

I rechecked every ground for the third time yesterday. Taking them completely off and back on. Here is what I know:

- EOT fail safe matches symtoms before I stopped when I got home.
- I have proper voltage to the coils (good relay, etc.)
- Do Not have proper initial voltage at the coils when turning over
- Do Not have any spark
- I have proper continuity from EOT sensor to the PCM
- IACV fails at step 4 (ohms not within spec)

I ordered new coils and EOT sensor. If neither one of those fixes it I guess I'll have no choice but to find a dealer. Anyone have recommendations in Alabama or Tennessee?

question - if IAC valve fails test - @HondaTech can explain how it should act - you have it out and inspect it

 

[Msmdomination]

I know you said there are no flashing lights.
Have you tried to see if there are any stored faults?
.
In the Service Manual, page 4-8 shows how to pull codes
.
This is from page 4-8
.
When retrieving the stored OTC, refer to the following procedure.
Remove the OLC from the dummy connector (page 4-8).
Short the OLC [1] using the special tool.
TOOL:
SCS service connector [2] 070PZ-2Y30100
CONNECTION: Brown/red - Green
Turn the ignition switch ON (I), read and note the MIL blinks, and refer to the
troubleshooting index:

• PGM Fl system: page 4-9
• OCT system: page 11-11

NOTE:
• If the PCM has any OTC in its memory, the MIL will start blinking.
.
The special tool they talk about is just a jumper wire.
jump: Brown/red - Green
.
View attachment 401165
And NO, you can't laugh at my diagram. ☝️haha
.
Then turn on ignition switch
count the flashes
.
Hoping something shows up to point us to the problem.
.
Have a good day

You are the MAN @Mark in Northern Iowa! Excellent point, and I will try this tonight.

@HondaTech I would've bet $1m that this would've been something simple. Like a ground, relay, offering a scrafice to the SXS gods. So this is quite frustrating. I 100% agree with you, but they were like $12 and the EOT around $11, so I figured what the heck. Do you know why they would have proper voltage (battery voltage) but then not have proper initial start voltage other than a bad coil? Is there something else I should check (without the MCS)?

 

[HondaTech]

You are the MAN @Mark in Northern Iowa! Excellent point, and I will try this tonight.

@HondaTech I would've bet $1m that this would've been something simple. Like a ground, relay, offering a scrafice to the SXS gods. So this is quite frustrating. I 100% agree with you, but they were like $12 and the EOT around $11, so I figured what the heck. Do you know why they would have proper voltage (battery voltage) but then not have proper initial start voltage other than a bad coil? Is there something else I should check (without the MCS)?

Not sure where your getting ignition coils for $12. Even Babbits is asking $60 a piece

 

[Msmdomination]

question - if IAC valve fails test - @HondaTech can explain how it should act - you have it out and inspect it

On step 4 it's supposed to read between 90-122 ohms. It reads in the 50s.


OK!!! Thanks to Mark here's what we got.

MIL:
23 - O2 heater circuit
29 - IACV
44 - EOT
64 - Drive Power Cir. low volt
1 - MAP
8 - TP sensor

Gear:
31 - Shift control input voltage
44 - EOT
8 - TP sensor
31 - Drive Power Cir. voltage

That's a lot of codes. I think the first thing I'll check is the Drive Power Circuit to see if it has an open relay. That and the EOT sensor are the only ones that would prevent the machine from starting.

Thank you again everyone!!! I was really bummed but now have new hope! haha

@HondaTech

2x Ignition Coil for Honda Pioneer 1000 SXS1000M3 / 1000-5 SXS1000M5 2016-2021 | eBay

Tap here to read more about 2x Ignition Coil for Honda Pioneer 1000 SXS1000M3 / 1000-5 SXS1000M5 2016-2021.

www.ebay.com

It was (2) for $22.

 

[HondaTech]

On step 4 it's supposed to read between 90-122 ohms. It reads in the 50s.


OK!!! Thanks to Mark here's what we got.

MIL:
23 - O2 heater circuit
29 - IACV
44 - EOT
64 - Drive Power Cir. low volt
1 - MAP
8 - TP sensor

Gear:
31 - Shift control input voltage
44 - EOT
8 - TP sensor
31 - Drive Power Cir. voltage

That's a lot of codes. I think the first thing I'll check is the Drive Power Circuit to see if it has an open relay. That and the EOT sensor are the only ones that would prevent the machine from starting.

Thank you again everyone!!! I was really bummed but now have new hope! haha

@HondaTech

2x Ignition Coil for Honda Pioneer 1000 SXS1000M3 / 1000-5 SXS1000M5 2016-2021 | eBay

Tap here to read more about 2x Ignition Coil for Honda Pioneer 1000 SXS1000M3 / 1000-5 SXS1000M5 2016-2021.

www.ebay.com

It was (2) for $22.

I wouldn't waster money on those coils, if you haven't already.

1 Those are garbage
2 They aren't the issue

When you said you aren't getting the voltage when cranking, where are you measuring that at? What should it be and what are you getting?

Looks like you have a voltage problems, maybe a bad battery? Unless I've missed that already.

The issue with memorized codes is the fact they aren't current. It stores all codes its ever triggered. Id erase them and start over and see what returns. Seeing all those sensor codes seems like the voltage to the throttle body was low, or missing at some point.

 

[Msmdomination]

I hear ya. I'm willing to try anything at this point. I doubt it's the coils too, but for $22 at least I'll know for sure (if I can't fix it before they get here).

Quick question, I hear the IACV moving when I turn the key on, but it sounds weird. At first it sounds like a normal motor operating, then it sounds like it's stuttering, or struggling for just a sec, before returning to a normal sound before turning off. @HondaTech is this normal? The manual only says if it makes a sound it's good, but I question the middle part of said sound.

 

[Mark in Northern Iowa]

Have to revisit something you said.
"Yes, I have the manual and have been following it. However, it only says how to troubleshoot this sensor with the MCS. Not with a multi meter."
.
On page 11-30(Code 44-1), yes it talks about the using the MCS for step 1 and 2.
Step 3 though, uses your multimeter to check continuity.
And the same for Code 44-2, step 3.
.
.
What @HondaTech said, is probably your best bet to start fresh.
Some of them codes, you probably created with the key on, unplugging sensors. haha!
Page 4-8 is also where to find how to clear the codes.
.
Heck, I had one owner I was helping online, that after clearing the old codes, his stalling problems were gone. I kept saying it was because of ground cleaning, but he has had no more problems.
.
page 4-26 of the Service Manual, Is a walk through of testing the IACV and wiring.
psst....(With a multimeter) 👍
.
Have a good day

 

[Msmdomination]

Have to revisit something you said.
"Yes, I have the manual and have been following it. However, it only says how to troubleshoot this sensor with the MCS. Not with a multi meter."
.
On page 11-30(Code 44-1), yes it talks about the using the MCS for step 1 and 2.
Step 3 though, uses your multimeter to check continuity.
And the same for Code 44-2, step 3.
.
.
What @HondaTech said, is probably your best bet to start fresh.
Some of them codes, you probably created with the key on, unplugging sensors. haha!
Page 4-8 is also where to find how to clear the codes.
.
Heck, I had one owner I was helping online, that after clearing the old codes, his stalling problems were gone. I kept saying it was because of ground cleaning, but he has had no more problems.
.
page 4-26 of the Service Manual, Is a walk through of testing the IACV and wiring.
psst....(With a multimeter) 👍
.
Have a good day

When you're right, you're right! I should have said "you can only test the actual sensor with the MCS. Using my multimeter and going through the steps, even measuring voltage on the sensor prongs without the MCS, all signs point to both a bad EOT sensor and IACV. But I don't know if I can trust the voltage on the actual sensor because Im not using the MCS."

Well, that's not really any better huh?! How about, "I did what I could with the MM, but after both sensors tested bad back to back, it made me not trust it"? I dunno, you get it now i'm sure.

I was able to clear the codes. None have showed back up. I thought one did once, cause the oil temp light came on along with code 64. But then I realized I had the relay out testing the drive circuits. Once I put it back in again she was happy.

Not starting, but no codes. I even went back to check stored codes without luck.

 

[Msmdomination]

@HondaTech when I was using the winch I had too small gauge wire ran to it. So the voltage was all over the place while I fried that #10 trying to get out. I've already removed all that wire and checked the wire harness for anywhere it may have been damaged by the insufficient melting conductor. I've also done a battery load test and kept it charged fully. I will say, the yellow top optima has handled this screw up very well.

 

[DRZRon1]

@HondaTech when I was using the winch I had too small gauge wire ran to it. So the voltage was all over the place while I fried that #10 trying to get out. I've already removed all that wire and checked the wire harness for anywhere it may have been damaged by the insufficient melting conductor. I've also done a battery load test and kept it charged fully. I will say, the yellow top optima has handled this screw up very well.

You pulled battery and had it load tested or you have a load tester ?

 

[TripleB]

you have a load tester ?

@JenElio has one of those.

 

[JenElio]

@JenElio has one of those.

Yes, yes I do, but I don't like sharing her......😬😂😂😂

 

[HondaTech]

Yes, yes I do, but I don't like sharing her......😬😂😂😂

If she aint 380, she aint a lady