P500 AGM battery to replace stock one?

JCart

JCart

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Hey Fellas,
The Dozer was bought in the autumn of 2014 and I’ve never replaced the stock battery. Thinking after 6 plus years it’s gonna be time soon. What do you suggest for same size as stock only in AGM style battery?
Thanks looking forward to suggestions and comments.
j
 
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kyote

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Always been a Wal-Mart NeverStart fan but the latest style of AGM battery they are selling looks hokey. The ones with the grey plastic cases and screw in terminals that came in a box were great, haven't tried the new style with the crappy old square nut type terminal and no box yet.
 
trigger

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Recently replaced both batteries on a '15, figured it was due. The stocker's are AGM, Yuasa 14ah is what was in mine. They've since replaced those with a same size 16ah. They were hard to find a few months ago, got one for the stock battery box. Second battery was replaced with a Deka 16ah, AGM and similar specs but around $50 cheaper.
 
JCart

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Wow time flies fellas… so finally ordered a new battery, chewed on a new larger battery for under the seat and thought better of it as the stock one lasted 7 years and still counting and basically happy with a two (under hood and stock location set up). Ordered an Anti Gravity Lithium ATX -12-HD supposed to drop right in stock location with 480 Cold cranking amps. Thinking it should do the trick. Cost wise was just a bit more then the stocker, with significant increase in capacity we will see.
Also ordered brake shoes. Geez here locally at my dealership…. I just couldn’t pull the trigger, like to shop local first, however they didn’t have any in stock so I’d’ve had to wait regardless. What really shocked me was the $$$$390.00 CDN for stock pads only. Ordered online aftermarket brand quality I think. 1/3 the cost…. Geez Honda!
Once parts are in I snap some pix, also will wire in more VisionX lights…
Cheers guys, spring feels like it’s coming here in Western Canuck land.
 
JCart

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So for those that head to Lithium Ion batteries…. You will require a specific charger mahahaaa. Here I thought I was a smarty pants for a buying a 480 amp battery with restart technology on it. Apparently if battery goes flat you press the restart button on top battery and it’ll fire up and work… but you need a Lithium Ion charger to maintain it.
Will probably get a CTek as I have had one of those for years (I run Optima Yellow tops) on my powerstroke 7.3 engines. They yellow tops last a long time for me 7-10 years per set in +40C to -40C weather and the CTek has been reliable.
Cheers
 
Mudder

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Have a Cteck charger, great product to rotate for SxS, motorcycle, tractor, ZT, etc. maintenance. Just a reminder NOT to use Recondition mode on AGM batteries, its only for flooded cells.

A lengthy but good explanation from Cteck.

“Recond program is developed only for flooded batteries (including EFB), to remix the flooded acid inside.
The remixing/balancing is necessary to treat an already stratified battery, or to prevent severe stratification.
AGM or GEL batteries are not flooded, and therefore does not suffer from stratification. That means Recond will not help AGM or GEL.

Reconding an AGM battery does not harm the battery, but does not help either, so we cannot recommend recond program on AGM batteries either.

For GEL batteries, recond can be harmful, because using too high voltage can dry the gel inside the battery and weaken the battery instead of empowering it.
NOTE:
When you choose Recond program, you should note that Recond program always starts with a normal battery charging program. Then, after battery has reached fully charged, Recond treatment itself is implemented. Depending of charger model and battery size, Recond step lasts from ½ to 4 hours, on top of the charging time.
When charger turns to green light, the program is completed.

I will explain here more about the topic:
So, Recond is made for remixing flooded acid inside the battery– hence, stratified batteries.
What is stratification?
Stratification is when the acid inside the battery gets layered.
As long as the acid and the water of the electrolyte in the battery are well mixed, the battery works as it should. But if the acid and water separate into layers, the battery just cannot be charged anymore regarding the parts that are layered, not by the alternator, nor by a charger.
So, acid that gets layered inside a battery causes loss of capacity.
WHY does the batteries get stratified?
Stratification can happen if the alternator charging voltage is too low or the charging time is insufficient (due to short drives for instance, or a lot of parallel loads during drive). Or if a battery is deeply discharged and unused for a period. Different batteries suffer more or less of stratification, depending of the battery type and qualifications.
Why is stratification a problem?
A stratified battery cannot store voltage as well as a healthy battery, and behaves as a smaller battery than it is. When conventionally charged - by the charger or the alternator- only the parts that still are ok, will be charged. So, a battery seems to be fully charged – but can be emptied by one start attempt. Stratification also promotes corrosion on the upper half of the plates and sulphation problems at the bottom.
Why does recond help?
Recond causes a controlled gassing that remixes the acid and equalizes the acid balance and through that the battery capacity is reclaimed and battery efficiency is restored, partially or almost all of it, depending how severe the problem is.

Just one more thing: Do not mix Stratification with Sulphation problems! Sulphation affects all kind of lead/acid batteries AND every CTEK charging program starts with a desulphation step, so you do not have to worry about that!!

Hope this was helpful
Best regards,
CTEK SUPPORT TEAM”
 
Smitty335

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Have a Cteck charger, great product to rotate for SxS, motorcycle, tractor, ZT, etc. maintenance. Just a reminder NOT to use Recondition mode on AGM batteries, its only for flooded cells.

A lengthy but good explanation from Cteck.

“Recond program is developed only for flooded batteries (including EFB), to remix the flooded acid inside.
The remixing/balancing is necessary to treat an already stratified battery, or to prevent severe stratification.
AGM or GEL batteries are not flooded, and therefore does not suffer from stratification. That means Recond will not help AGM or GEL.

Reconding an AGM battery does not harm the battery, but does not help either, so we cannot recommend recond program on AGM batteries either.

For GEL batteries, recond can be harmful, because using too high voltage can dry the gel inside the battery and weaken the battery instead of empowering it.
NOTE:
When you choose Recond program, you should note that Recond program always starts with a normal battery charging program. Then, after battery has reached fully charged, Recond treatment itself is implemented. Depending of charger model and battery size, Recond step lasts from ½ to 4 hours, on top of the charging time.
When charger turns to green light, the program is completed.

I will explain here more about the topic:
So, Recond is made for remixing flooded acid inside the battery– hence, stratified batteries.
What is stratification?
Stratification is when the acid inside the battery gets layered.
As long as the acid and the water of the electrolyte in the battery are well mixed, the battery works as it should. But if the acid and water separate into layers, the battery just cannot be charged anymore regarding the parts that are layered, not by the alternator, nor by a charger.
So, acid that gets layered inside a battery causes loss of capacity.
WHY does the batteries get stratified?
Stratification can happen if the alternator charging voltage is too low or the charging time is insufficient (due to short drives for instance, or a lot of parallel loads during drive). Or if a battery is deeply discharged and unused for a period. Different batteries suffer more or less of stratification, depending of the battery type and qualifications.
Why is stratification a problem?
A stratified battery cannot store voltage as well as a healthy battery, and behaves as a smaller battery than it is. When conventionally charged - by the charger or the alternator- only the parts that still are ok, will be charged. So, a battery seems to be fully charged – but can be emptied by one start attempt. Stratification also promotes corrosion on the upper half of the plates and sulphation problems at the bottom.
Why does recond help?
Recond causes a controlled gassing that remixes the acid and equalizes the acid balance and through that the battery capacity is reclaimed and battery efficiency is restored, partially or almost all of it, depending how severe the problem is.

Just one more thing: Do not mix Stratification with Sulphation problems! Sulphation affects all kind of lead/acid batteries AND every CTEK charging program starts with a desulphation step, so you do not have to worry about that!!

Hope this was helpful
Best regards,
CTEK SUPPORT TEAM”
That was as clear as MUD! HA!
 
JCart

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Hi fellas, showed up sooner than I thought, nice! This thing is really light, like under 3lbs and has 4 battery post that will be handy for attaching the auxiliary battery leads to. I did do a battery draw test and it has 480 amps of juice in it from the factory. CTek charger specific to Lithium Ion battery is on the way, also have a remote charger lead to hook up and leave on the battery. Seems Lithium Ions are rated a little differently compared to lead acid and AGMs, no CCA are listed supposedly due to differences in battery characteristics and design. This HD version has a “restart” function on it. Seems it self monitors and when it gets de-charged enough if shuts down. You must then push the restart button on top battery for final burst of remaining power. Sounds kind of like a gimmick, however Lithium Ions (least this version) maintain (supposedly) near full amps then switch off. Unlike a LA battery which loose amps as it de-charges down and has much less power in cold weather too. Lithium ions in cold weather you can increase power by creating a draw like flipping on the lights for a bit to heat the battery up, then it will put out more power compared to being cold… weird! Thankfully have an auxiliary Odessey 925C under the hood so should be ok.
Cheers
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crewcabrob

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Thank you, guys, for a great discussion!

So, since I don't know this stuff like the back of my hand, nor do I have an Electrical Engineering degree... I assume from the explanation above that I can't just install a LION battery (such as the Anti-Gravity one above) as the primary battery because it requires a different type of charger than out stock system on the P500/P520?

I understand that so called trickle chargers for lead acid batteries should not be used on lithium Ion batteries. My assumption is that the stator based charging system will cause some type of damage to a battery like the the Anti-Gravity one.

There is every indication I am just not understanding the rules here. I apologize for asking questions and not just going to read an article on the subject. I will try to go find an article and if I can find a good one, I will post it here.

Rob
 
crewcabrob

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OK, I did go and read some info and it looks like the Antigravity battery is a direct replacement for the AGM that we have in the P520. Only if I decide to add a trickle charger for storage, would I have to worry.

Rob
 
Mudder

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Thank you, guys, for a great discussion!

So, since I don't know this stuff like the back of my hand, nor do I have an Electrical Engineering degree... I assume from the explanation above that I can't just install a LION battery (such as the Anti-Gravity one above) as the primary battery because it requires a different type of charger than out stock system on the P500/P520?

I understand that so called trickle chargers for lead acid batteries should not be used on lithium Ion batteries. My assumption is that the stator based charging system will cause some type of damage to a battery like the the Anti-Gravity one.

There is every indication I am just not understanding the rules here. I apologize for asking questions and not just going to read an article on the subject. I will try to go find an article and if I can find a good one, I will post it here.

Rob
Agree, some great discussion and knowledge here on @Hondasxs ‘s forum. Thanks Richard.
 
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lil_country

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OK, I did go and read some info and it looks like the Antigravity battery is a direct replacement for the AGM that we have in the P520. Only if I decide to add a trickle charger for storage, would I have to worry.

Rob
That's the way I understand it. I just went to a lithium battery this week. It was only about $20 more that the AGM (It's not the restart battery).
 
JCart

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My Darlin’s scale topped out at 11:01.1 lbs/oz on the stock battery it’s actually heavier than that. Rather shocking heh, the difference…. Oooo the extra ponies in weight loss, will make up for my gain over the winter Mahahaha.
cheers
j
 
JCart

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Ok guys an update. Seems I messed up hard on the Odessey 925C which has been an awesome battery. I charged it with my 7002 CTek charger and figured the CTek would revert to trickle charge once topped right up. Thinking it was charging for a few days and had switched to trickle… um not! Was in the garage and could smell something weird! Lucky I looked about and it was the Odessey overheating big time. Unhooked charger and remove it (battery) outside to cool off. Battery case is distorted and bulged. So I’m thinking I messed up…. So glad I caught this as things woulda been exciting if ida caught the place on fire….. gah! Not to mention melting down pet Dozer!

So in doing some research, I’ve discovered it’s not recommended to mix battery types/brands/capacities. With that in mind I’m thinking I’ll go with another Anti-Gravity, just not sure on size/Ah, just yet.
Cheers,
j
 
JCart

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Also did a little more research on the Blue Sea Mini add a battery kit. Have had this kit on the Dozer since 2015 and seems to have worked well. It’s a battery isolator between starter and auxiliary battery, so keeps the batteries separate in terms of draw down. It has a 3 position switch the isolates batteries, combines them and shuts off everything (kinda like a night switch). When charging it senses a draw and directs charges to both batteries (I had thought it would direct to whichever had greatest draw). Most all my auxiliary gear is attached to auxiliary battery, e.g., E-steering, Winch, VisionX lights, etc. So gonna add up amp draw of (auxiliary gear), with an eye to sorting Ah I could use for auxiliary battery. It appears that one (correct me if I’m mistaken… please), should not install too large an auxiliary (nor different brand, or type) as this may impact charging of both batteries.
The adventure continues… mahahaaa
 
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JCart

JCart

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Alright, so dug around a little more and bought a NOCO Lithium for auxiliary replacement.
Fit perfectly into my ammo can battery/fuse holder. Think iirc 8ah equivalent, will give it a whirl this week and see how it works.
Cheers
 
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Remington

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So in doing some research, I’ve discovered it’s not recommended to mix battery types
And your first clue? 🤣
Alright, so dug around a little more and bought a NOCO Lithium for auxiliary replacement.
For your main or second battery?
And Is it the same type as your other battery? Dont need another meltdown.
 

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