P1000 ALL Pioneer 1k owners cast your poll vote!! ***CLUTCH FAILURE TRACKING***

[joeymt33]

The wiring between the two batteries is not large enough as well as the isolator itself is not large enough to allow enough amperage to go from battery one to battery two to significantly drop the primary battery.

Maybe if you put some extremely large two Gauge battery cables between the two and a very heavy duty relay you could instantly drain the stock battery. But with the True isolator set up, it doesn't seem like it's a problem.

 

[Admin]

 

[ohanacreek]

Only one way to find out... who wants to drain a battery?

 

[JTW]

Only one way to find out... who wants to drain a battery?

Lol... there will be beer!!

 

[Windrock1000]

Interesting... so you could in this senerio be stuck and using your winch creating a low voltage situation at the same time you actively trying to engage all 4wheels.. seems plausible no?

Run dual battery setup and isolate accessories from main battery!

 

[Boomboom907]

I wonder if aggressive clutch engagement extends the life of the clutch? Anyone drive aggressively and have early failure before 500 miles?

A lot of people on the forum told me I had to drive like this. I'm not going to. You shouldn't have to foot to the floor to keep your stuff from breaking down, especially when you are talking money like this.

I'm gonna drive as slow as I can and burn as many up as possible till they fix.

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[ncred02]

I'll be quick to post if I have any clutch issues. You guys sure have me nervous.

Me too. I'm scared to get rid of my 500 for a 1000

 

[Windrock1000]

I agree sounds like a very neat set up. But the stock battery is a toy for vehicle the size of a pioneer. I do like the 2 battery set up. If it's cold in the snow working a snow plow or winch and let's say factory battery is at 12.6 volts which means pioneer is charging the factory battery at that time and the 2nd battery falls below 12 volts then the stock battery is fully charged at that time it swaps over to charge the below 12 volts yellow top what is the voltage at that instant time as both batteries are hooked back together to charge the yellow top. Just seems to me that the pioneer would not have big enough amp alternator to keep up if your really working a winch or plow at full potential in very cold weather.


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Your yellow top resting state is 13 volts. I too have run into the problem you describe when I'm running the light bars and radio. I use the deep seas SCR charging relay and it switches batteries at 12.8 volt and it bounces back a forth when it combines the batteries. Your charging system only puts out about 45 amps @ 6 K RPM and the yellow top is about 4-5 times the capacity of the stock battery so it takes a while to charge. My suggestion is to keep the yellow to on a trickle charger while parked. It can be left on charge indefinitely.

 

[arizonasteeler]

This is an awesome discussion i hope we get some good hard facts from this.

 

[Ridem32]

This is an awesome discussion i hope we get some good hard facts from this.

Even if you run 2 batteries like everyone has them set up and running a winch or plow in cold weather no way can the charging system keep up. The low voltage could cause clutch failures. I do remember someone saying that in very cold weather their pioneer would not crank due to dead battery when he jumped it off it would not move when put in gear. That tells me that there was not enough battery voltage to work the electrical part of the clutch to engage it


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[Windrock1000]

Even if you run 2 batteries like everyone has them set up and running a winch or plow in cold weather no way can the charging system keep up. The low voltage could cause clutch failures. I do remember someone saying that in very cold weather their pioneer would not crank due to dead battery when he jumped it off it would not move when put in gear. That tells me that there was not enough battery voltage to work the electrical part of the clutch to engage it


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Remember it is also fuel injected if it shifts on a low or dead battery it may stall the motor.

 

[joeymt33]

Even if you run 2 batteries like everyone has them set up and running a winch or plow in cold weather no way can the charging system keep up. The low voltage could cause clutch failures. I do remember someone saying that in very cold weather their pioneer would not crank due to dead battery when he jumped it off it would not move when put in gear. That tells me that there was not enough battery voltage to work the electrical part of the clutch to engage it


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There's no way? Mine has no problem keeping up. I've done some heavy winching and even turned on enough lights, radio, and fans to see the isolator break connection while blasting down the trail. I noticed it on the volt gauges and was happy I had the isolator, it saved me from potential problems. I just turned off a light or two and it caught up and started charging again.

I agree that its very possible that solenoid voltage can cause issues but the dual battery setup done right is a great idea. I would never knock it.

Why does it seem that you are searching for faults in it?

 

[Montecresto]

Me too. I'm scared to get rid of my 500 for a 1000

Do both.

 

[Jamesgang]

I'm not sure he understand that your winch could drain the second battery so dead that the winch would not work and you main battery would still be seating there with 12.7 volts. There for you buggy would operate just fine.

 

[joeymt33]

I don't want to start an argument. I just don't want people to get turned off on the dual battery system which I believe is a great system.

I also don't want to cover up that Honda has some issues here. There's are definitely a very small percentage of people having issues with the clutches.

You also cannot ignore the fact that I have a lot more electrical accessories that I use that could cause problems with the low-voltage issue. I also run 30 inch tires over harsh terrain and I still don't have clutch problems at 1500 miles.

 

[ohanacreek]

Even if you run 2 batteries like everyone has them set up and running a winch or plow in cold weather no way can the charging system keep up. The low voltage could cause clutch failures. I do remember someone saying that in very cold weather their pioneer would not crank due to dead battery when he jumped it off it would not move when put in gear. That tells me that there was not enough battery voltage to work the electrical part of the clutch to engage it


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I had the same yellowtop on my 700 that is currently sitting under the seat of my 1000 it had no prob charging it, the system could not keep up with draw but that's EXACTLY what a second isolated battery is for.

I kept it on trickle whenever it was parked so I always started with a full battery.

 

[ohanacreek]

Even if you run 2 batteries like everyone has them set up and running a winch or plow in cold weather no way can the charging system keep up. The low voltage could cause clutch failures. I do remember someone saying that in very cold weather their pioneer would not crank due to dead battery when he jumped it off it would not move when put in gear. That tells me that there was not enough battery voltage to work the electrical part of the clutch to engage it


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Yes the electronics are voltage sensitive, which is why I am going with a isolated battery. Also going to be on the voltmeter like pack of dogs on a 3 legged cat.

I'm doing everything I can NOT to cause a clutch problem.

Lighter and lower (height wise)accessory weights than my 700, lower power draws, proper break in following Honda recommendations, Honda Oil....ect

 

[JACKAL]

Why does it seem that you are searching for faults in it?

Some people must complain that thier ice cream is cold and just want to watch the world burn.

 

[YardDog]

I haven't purchased a rig yet because I'm gun shy on the clutch issue. I got a hold of a local dealer and asked him about the clutch issue and also how many miles they put on a new Pioneer before it's considered a demo. I've seen some with 30-40 miles on them, but are sold as new. The reply on the clutches was this...

" The problem of the clutches burning out was due to several customers pulling large loaded trailers in automatic mode. Pulling heavy loads in the low range manual mode has reduced most of those issues"

Not happy with that answer as it seems some folks have fried clutches just driving normal with no trailers behind them. And unless you get paddle shift your rolling the dice.

On the second question....

" Side by sides or any other machines are not considered demo until the 300 mile range"

Wasn't happy with that answer either. 300 miles of test drives has got to be hard on them. They never let them warm up and on my test ride I was encouraged to pin it's ears back. Not much help as far as answers to the clutch problem, just thought I'd relay what a dealer told me.

 

[AKRider]

I haven't purchased a rig yet because I'm gun shy on the clutch issue. I got a hold of a local dealer and asked him about the clutch issue and also how many miles they put on a new Pioneer before it's considered a demo. I've seen some with 30-40 miles on them, but are sold as new. The reply on the clutches was this...

" The problem of the clutches burning out was due to several customers pulling large loaded trailers in automatic mode. Pulling heavy loads in the low range manual mode has reduced most of those issues"

Not happy with that answer as it seems some folks have fried clutches just driving normal with no trailers behind them. And unless you get paddle shift your rolling the dice.

On the second question....

" Side by sides or any other machines are not considered demo until the 300 mile range"

Wasn't happy with that answer either. 300 miles of test drives has got to be hard on them. They never let them warm up and on my test ride I was encouraged to pin it's ears back. Not much help as far as answers to the clutch problem, just thought I'd relay what a dealer told me.

I'd say that dealer is an idiot... and find another dealer.

 

[YardDog]

Does anyone think the issue has been addressed by Honda for the 2017 models? I'm a Honda fan from way back because anything Honda has always been dependable, and unless you flat out trash it, they have always outlasted everything else. I have to sell a toy before I can buy a toy so I have time to decide between a 2016 or 2017. I know that the problem isn't wide spread, but has happened enough that I'm gun shy. I sure would hate to spend that kind of cash on a rig that I would have to worry about all the time. My 420 Rancher and VTX1800 T3 are flawless and live up to the Honda name I've grown to depend on and trust.