Alright...so how bad are the sub trans problems?

[Mcclain210]

Finally able to find some by me and getting ready to pull the trigger. Im in between the rmax le and talon r right now. Seems that I constantly hear problems about hondas sub trans and ruined gearing. I know of two people by me that had the issue badly and needed new sub trans. Im told by many that if you have a couple bad shifts, thats all it takes to destroy the sub trans gearing. Seems that honda dropped the ball big time on this thing and they need to address it for 22. I really dont want a problematic vehicle between the intake and sub trans. How bad is this issue really?

PS. Not trolling. Im a diehard honda guy. 3 honda atvs, 8 honda dirt bikes in my 29 years.

 

[Admin]

 

[DAJO]

My 2019 seems to be just fine. Have not even needed to adjust cable. I do make sure the panel indicates a gear before adding power.

 

[Cuoutdoors]

Finally able to find some by me and getting ready to pull the trigger. Im in between the rmax le and talon r right now. Seems that I constantly hear problems about hondas sub trans and ruined gearing. I know of two people by me that had the issue badly and needed new sub trans. Im told by many that if you have a couple bad shifts, thats all it takes to destroy the sub trans gearing. Seems that honda dropped the ball big time on this thing and they need to address it for 22. I really dont want a problematic vehicle between the intake and sub trans. How bad is this issue really?

The Rmax and Talon are very different machines. The Rmax is more like the polaris general. Its a good mix of sport and utility. It has a dump bed. The Talon is a sport machine. The sub trans issue is caused by not getting full engagement. It starts to round off the cogs then it goes to hell. A few bad incidents and it can go down hill quickly.

There are a lot of guys that refuse to have anything but a "REAL" transmission. But its REALLY tough to change a sub transmission on the side of the trail. I wouldn't necessarily say its a reason not to buy a talon but its something to keep in mind.

If you're not opposed to the belt machines, you should take a look at the KRX 1000 or the Can am. Depending on the riding you do. Shock Therapy has some really good videos on Youtube that covers the ride quality and suspension of each.

 

[SpeedBuggy]

My 2019 seems to be just fine. Have not even needed to adjust cable. I do make sure the panel indicates a gear before adding power.

^^^ X’s 2 no issues.

 

[CID]

The sub trans is an awareness issue, if you know about it and shift while paying attention (watch for the L on the dash panel), it'll last for 'a long time'. Get in a hurry and impatient on the trail, start jamming between R, H and L, let it grind a few times thinking it doesn't matter and bad ju ju happens.

It helps if you can avoid using Low before it's warmed up from driving (little if anything is moving in the sub trans when idling so the oil isn't getting warmed as much as the engine). If I want to use Low when cold, I'll use High to get me rolling and shift into Low at a SLOW roll, this helps the shift dogs align. Having your foot off the brake helps too (if you're at a stop). Honda's motor oil with Moly helps the sub trans shifting but don't use it in the motor.

The first post in the thread linked in my sig shows some shift dog damage (random internet pics) to help picture what's happening. A little situational awareness and mechanical sympathy go a long way in protecting the shift dogs. Don't get in a hurry and don't jam gears.

After years of snowmobiling, I don't care if I never own another CVT, I'll learn to live with the DCT's idiosyncrasies. Having 6 speeds, throttle connected directly to the tires and paddle control is more fun than should be legal.

 

[Mcclain210]

I appreciate the detailed replies from everyone. I mean honestly, dont you guys think they should beef the sub trans up and fix these issues for 2022?? To me this isnt the normal honda quality. They should have heat treated all of these gears. Would have been allot tougher.

 

[Hometeam]

I appreciate the detailed replies from everyone. I mean honestly, dont you guys think they should beef the sub trans up and fix these issues for 2022?? To me this isnt the normal honda quality. They should have heat treated all of these gears. Would have been allot tougher.

Sure I would like it to be beefier and not at all an issue but I can name things on any machine out there that I would like to be beefier and different on. My thoughts on the subtrans in the Honda is, if your cable is adjusted properly and you are fully in gear It is basically a zero issue. It's technically only "weak" when it's not fully engaged and then chips the gear engagement. I have had zero issues with mine. My cousin has the same machine with zero issues also. Good luck with your choice those are two solid machines! If you don't need the utility, I personally would choose the Talon!!)

 

[Cuoutdoors]

I appreciate the detailed replies from everyone. I mean honestly, dont you guys think they should beef the sub trans up and fix these issues for 2022?? To me this isnt the normal honda quality. They should have heat treated all of these gears. Would have been allot tougher.

This has been an issue since the pioneer 1000 came out and seems to be more prevalent in the talon but no idea why. Yea they should have fixed it a long time ago.

However, as others said, all machines have their pros and cons. Just gotta decide what you want to deal with.

 

[hondabob]

I have close to 17,000 miles on my talon and no problem. Its like the guys say make sure the shift cable is adjusted properly and make sure the shift lever will wiggle in the shift gate, if its loaded forward its not in gear and you will get the shift bang when you apply throttle.

 

[HUCK]

Like HondaBob said ! Exactly but I only have 6k on mine . Haven't experienced your other option BUT the Talon is SOOOOO much fun . Toss it into a slide / down shift and FLY . Not an option with a belt drive . I have a RZR , a Pioneer and a Talon . The Talon is AWESOME !

 

[kidamer]

The sub trans is an awareness issue, if you know about it and shift while paying attention (watch for the L on the dash panel), it'll last for 'a long time'. Get in a hurry and impatient on the trail, start jamming between R, H and L, let it grind a few times thinking it doesn't matter and bad ju ju happens.

It helps if you can avoid using Low before it's warmed up from driving (little if anything is moving in the sub trans when idling so the oil isn't getting warmed as much as the engine). If I want to use Low when cold, I'll use High to get me rolling and shift into Low at a SLOW roll, this helps the shift dogs align. Having your foot off the brake helps too (if you're at a stop). Honda's motor oil with Moly helps the sub trans shifting but don't use it in the motor.

The first post in the thread linked in my sig shows some shift dog damage (random internet pics) to help picture what's happening. A little situational awareness and mechanical sympathy go a long way in protecting the shift dogs. Don't get in a hurry and don't jam gears.

After years of snowmobiling, I don't care if I never own another CVT, I'll learn to live with the DCT's idiosyncrasies. Having 6 speeds, throttle connected directly to the tires and paddle control is more fun than should be legal.

This they have no issues as long as you realize that its in gear before your foot goes to the floor

 

[Russ989]

This has been an issue since the pioneer 1000 came out and seems to be more prevalent in the talon but no idea why. Yea they should have fixed it a long time ago.

However, as others said, all machines have their pros and cons. Just gotta decide what you want to deal with.

To your point, none of them are perfect. There are a lot of choices for sure.

 

[PaulF]

Finally able to find some by me and getting ready to pull the trigger. Im in between the rmax le and talon r right now. Seems that I constantly hear problems about hondas sub trans and ruined gearing. I know of two people by me that had the issue badly and needed new sub trans. Im told by many that if you have a couple bad shifts, thats all it takes to destroy the sub trans gearing. Seems that honda dropped the ball big time on this thing and they need to address it for 22. I really dont want a problematic vehicle between the intake and sub trans. How bad is this issue really?

PS. Not trolling. Im a diehard honda guy. 3 honda atvs, 8 honda dirt bikes in my 29 years.

If you are worried about the sub-trans, shoot me a PM when you get your Talon and I will sell you a specialized shift gate that has more throw and a more positive Low engagement. My 2019 R did the shift "Bang" once at about 200 miles so I engineered a better shift gate. 3000 miles on mine since installing my upgraded shift gate and I NEVER look at my shift indicator anymore and have not had any more issues.

View this thread starting here for more detailed info...

Talon - Honda Talon Shift Problem, Pioneer 1000 too.

Then you are risking the same issue in reverse. What's funny/sad/dumb is that this could be solved by a $10 piece of plastic. The low gate needs to be further back and smaller imo. Mine is at the dealer, was supposed to be ready last Saturday, then yesterday, so hopefully today is the day...

hondasxs.com

Early prototype looked like this...

I now have 2 CNC cut ABS versions available. There are others out there but mine is the only one that I know of with the small Low gate to insure better Low engagement...

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

If you are worried about the sub-trans, shoot me a PM when you get your Talon and I will sell you a specialized shift gate that has more throw and a more positive Low engagement. My 2019 R did the shift "Bang" once at about 200 miles so I engineered a better shift gate. 3000 miles on mine since installing my upgraded shift gate and I NEVER look at my shift indicator anymore and have not had any more issues.

View this thread starting here for more detailed info...

Talon - Honda Talon Shift Problem, Pioneer 1000 too.

Then you are risking the same issue in reverse. What's funny/sad/dumb is that this could be solved by a $10 piece of plastic. The low gate needs to be further back and smaller imo. Mine is at the dealer, was supposed to be ready last Saturday, then yesterday, so hopefully today is the day...

hondasxs.com

Early prototype looked like this...

View attachment 251914

I now have 2 CNC cut ABS versions available. There are others out there but mine is the only one that I know of with the small Low gate to insure better Low engagement...

View attachment 251912

View attachment 251913

This is the way. ^^^^

my prototype version is flawless.

be aware of the indicator.
Ride it.

 

[bjniceguy]

i agree on Paul's gate. Have had it so long basically forgot about it. Never an issue so far. Install, adjust cable & forget

 

[Scott_in-utah]

Finally able to find some by me and getting ready to pull the trigger. Im in between the rmax le and talon r right now. Seems that I constantly hear problems about hondas sub trans and ruined gearing. I know of two people by me that had the issue badly and needed new sub trans. Im told by many that if you have a couple bad shifts, thats all it takes to destroy the sub trans gearing. Seems that honda dropped the ball big time on this thing and they need to address it for 22. I really dont want a problematic vehicle between the intake and sub trans. How bad is this issue really?

PS. Not trolling. Im a diehard honda guy. 3 honda atvs, 8 honda dirt bikes in my 29 years.

I've heard a couple loud clangs when starting our both in forward and reverse. Sounds like someone smacked a steel bar against another one. New to Honda's and sxs's is that the sub trans issue I only have 260 miles on it. 2020 Pioneer 1000-5.

 

[Dirtstiffs-1000]

Don't over-fill the sub trans oil...

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

I've heard a couple loud clangs when starting our both in forward and reverse. Sounds like someone smacked a steel bar against another one. New to Honda's and sxs's is that the sub trans issue I only have 260 miles on it. 2020 Pioneer 1000-5.

This is the talon forum.

 

[highpocket74]

I think the key is to keep the cable precisely adjusted. Once that is set the machine shifts beautifully.