T
the 33s came on it when bought, so then would it need a gear reduction or stock wheels so the light does not come on? I am not around the machine this week. Just wanted to get some insight.
T
the 33s came on it when bought, so then would it need a gear reduction or stock wheels so the light does not come on? I am not around the machine this week. Just wanted to get some insight.
Remington
POIDH Enforcement Officer
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If u keep them, you will have to do a gear reduction or portals yes or suffer the same fait. By stepping down a bit in size it might turn your temp light off. But its a start. Id go down to 30’s or lower anyway and see. But there might be a temp sensor thats bad if it was original. Im not 100% sure on all the internal guts to that. @HondaTech might be able to clear that up for ya tho.
T
I replaced the sensor with a known good one just to rule that out.
Adam490
HFA Grand High Wizard
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No.... you don't need OEM wheels/tires or a gear reduction. You might want the gear reduction if you are running BKT's or an aggressive mud tire and play in the mud. Otherwise you'll be fine on 32-33" tires; you'll just notice a bit of a power loss over the stock tire size. You've got something else going on causing that clutch temp light to come on under a load. I've never had the cases apart to change the clutches, but I know when they go there is a ton of clutch material that can clog things up. Sounds like that may be something to look into? It's not your tires.
@HondaTech
@snuffnwhisky
@CumminsPusher
Here's a post from @HondaTech showing the garbage that gets in there and why it is important to clean everything out:
P1000 - Importance of engine cleaning after clutch failure
Pictures of inside the valve body, oil tank and oil pan of Pioneer 1000 after clutch failure. This is why i recommend disassembling and cleaning the rear of the engine after the clutch fails in the 1000 series engine. Flushing will never remove this debris.
hondasxs.com
T
Had it all apart an cleaned everything. Just stumped on why it’s coming on Under hard accelerationNo.... you don't need OEM wheels/tires or a gear reduction. You might want the gear reduction if you are running BKT's or an aggressive mud tire and play in the mud. Otherwise you'll be fine on 32-33" tires; you'll just notice a bit of a power loss over the stock tire size. You've got something else going on causing that clutch temp light to come on under a load. I've never had the cases apart to change the clutches, but I know when they go there is a ton of clutch material that can clog things up. Sounds like that may be something to look into? It's not your tires.
@HondaTech
@snuffnwhisky
@CumminsPusher
Here's a post from @HondaTech showing the garbage that gets in there and why it is important to clean everything out:
P1000 - Importance of engine cleaning after clutch failure
Pictures of inside the valve body, oil tank and oil pan of Pioneer 1000 after clutch failure. This is why i recommend disassembling and cleaning the rear of the engine after the clutch fails in the 1000 series engine. Flushing will never remove this debris.
Adam490
HFA Grand High Wizard
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Gotcha. Seems like it's related to flowing enough oil to cool the clutches when under heavy load. Hopefully one of the guys I tagged will have something for you.
T
I appreciate the help. I’ve done everything I know to do. Checked everything I know of.
snuffnwhisky
Village Idiot
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You could put it in manual mode and get on it to see if its the even or odd gear clutch pack pressure loss causing it.
snuffnwhisky
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There are 3 oil pumps. Oil pan pickup tube has one that sends oil to the oil tank. Engine oil pump and Trans oil pump. If the pickup is blocked from clutch material, it will starve both of oil. Oil pressure regulator for the clutch is inside the oil tank. There's a metal screen inside the valve body of the clutch cover that needs to be cleaned. Clutch oil pressure at idle should be over 100 psi.
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T
It was all cleaned when apart, checked the regulator an it seems to be free an clean. I checked pressures while driving it, spec I believe around 5,000 was 50 psi with 2-3 psi bleed over between both clutch packs. They both were fine. Never had any loss when accelerating hard on it. Clutch line pressure at idle was good. I tried manual mode an it still seems to do it, hard to tell which gear though when getting on it.
snuffnwhisky
Village Idiot
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The 50 psi should be engine oil pressure. I do not believe the book shows how to check the clutch pressure or specs. I manually checked on my pioneer many years ago. Mine was 110 psi at idle and 130 psi at 5k rpm.
snuffnwhisky
Village Idiot
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Run manual mode in 1st, 3rd and 5th and get on it and see if you get a light. Do the same in 2nd, 4th and 6th gear. Outside clutch pack is for R, 1, 3 & 5th gear. Inside pack is for 2, 4 & 6th gear. If its only 1 clutch causing problems, you probably have a clutch pack oring bad or the seals on the shaft bad. If both packs, your loosing pressure on both shaft seals, pump or regulator problem - Low oil pressure, cover bearing in backwards, Linear solenoid bad or bad seal on one of the hollow dowels that goes between the covers and separator plate.
snuffnwhisky
Village Idiot
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The oil pressure regulator for the engine pump can be removed from the outside of the oil tank, easy. The reg for the trans pump is inside the oil tank. Oil tank has to come off to get to it, PITA.
T
Thanks for the info, yes I checked the pressure there which is good. Also checked pressures at both clutch pack pressure sensors To make sure I had no pressure loss when driving it. I’ve actually had it apart twice because I thought maybe it was a oring under the clutch packs or sealing ring, but everything was ok even replaced again when had apart. Replaced all solenoid valves and linear valve. Cover bearing is in correct per service manual. I won’t be able to check driving it for a few days.
T
I had the regulator out for the transmission and cleaned.
snuffnwhisky
Village Idiot
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The temp sender just sends a ground to the ECU to trigger the light. Make sure those wires are not rubbed through touching the engine or frame also. Trans pressure should be over 100 psi where i checked in the pic above.
T
Pressure is over 100 at idle an around 130 or so at 5,000. I will have to check the wires going to the ecu
H
HondaTech
Guest
There isn't any new sensors in the engine/trans on a Talon that aren't in the Pioneer.
From what I've gathered Honda is using the Oil temp sensor in the clutch cover to monitor oil temp and trigger the PCM to turn the clutch "overheat" light on. They didn't add any additional sensors for that function is what I'm getting at.
Wee were talking to another dealership who was trying to run KOH this year with a fresh engine build having this same issue. As far as I know they hadn't resolved, atleast not since I last spoke to them.
That sensor uses the dame ground for all 3 Oil Pressure sensors in the clutch cover as well. I'm beginning to wonder if it's not a ground issue, I believe OP replaced the sensor already so it rules that out. I'm wondering what the sensor is reading and if it really is hot or just reading hot. Since unplugging temperature sensors usually causes high volatge and fans to turn on when used in the cooling system.
If you unplug thay sensor, does the light stay on?
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snuffnwhisky
Village Idiot
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Yep. Shared ground going to the sensor and other wire, only 2 to it, goes to ecu. Sensor trips and passes the ground to ecu to trigger the light. Sensor mechanically trips at a set temp to complete the circuit. Common sensor for temp lights and fan control. Already swapped to a known good one so should eliminate the sensor.
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