DCT light comes on, machine shuts off

[adudes]

Was riding this last week, the tranny wouldn't shift, the clutch overheat light came on and engine died. If I shut key off and on, it would start right up. I could drive it, but it wouldn't shift and if I went fast enough for it to shift, clutch light came on again and died. I was able to limp it to the trailhead if I kept it under 10mph. When cold, I could drive it for a few miles, no clutch slippage, shifts fine until light comes back on.

Did the clutch relearn, it took but symptoms are still there. If I jump the red plug under seat, 'N' flashes 5 slow and 7 fast. No dash for gear indicator, but always 'N'. Even when trying to erase the code, it always showed 'N' and not '--'. I was unable to erase the code, always 57. Service manual says code is for Gear mechanism malfuntion. Go to page 11-42, says to refer to DTC 27-1 (page 11-31). Go there and all the checks require the MCS which I assume is the Honda dealer diagnostic tool. So no way for a non-dealer to check it. Visual inspection of TR sensor shows no issues.

I can't find the sensor that triggers the clutch light on the dash. I would like to look at it before going any further. Otherwise I will pull the clutch cover off and look at the clutch. I have the Honda extended warranty but I have absolutely no confidence that it would be covered, especially with 4500 miles. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Smitty335]

Was riding this last week, the tranny wouldn't shift, the clutch overheat light came on and engine died. If I shut key off and on, it would start right up. I could drive it, but it wouldn't shift and if I went fast enough for it to shift, clutch light came on again and died. I was able to limp it to the trailhead if I kept it under 10mph. When cold, I could drive it for a few miles, no clutch slippage, shifts fine until light comes back on.

Did the clutch relearn, it took but symptoms are still there. If I jump the red plug under seat, 'N' flashes 5 slow and 7 fast. No dash for gear indicator, but always 'N'. Even when trying to erase the code, it always showed 'N' and not '--'. I was unable to erase the code, always 57. Service manual says code is for Gear mechanism malfuntion. Go to page 11-42, says to refer to DTC 27-1 (page 11-31). Go there and all the checks require the MCS which I assume is the Honda dealer diagnostic tool. So no way for a non-dealer to check it. Visual inspection of TR sensor shows no issues.

I can't find the sensor that triggers the clutch light on the dash. I would like to look at it before going any further. Otherwise I will pull the clutch cover off and look at the clutch. I have the Honda extended warranty but I have absolutely no confidence that it would be covered, especially with 4500 miles. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

I think you will get a lot of replies suggesting you check the battery and electrical grounds first, but what do I know?

 

[adudes]

I think you will get a lot of replies suggesting you check the battery and electrical grounds first, but what do I know?

I did remove and clean grounds, forgot to mention that in post. Thanks

 

[Stilly1155]

Was riding this last week, the tranny wouldn't shift, the clutch overheat light came on and engine died. If I shut key off and on, it would start right up. I could drive it, but it wouldn't shift and if I went fast enough for it to shift, clutch light came on again and died. I was able to limp it to the trailhead if I kept it under 10mph. When cold, I could drive it for a few miles, no clutch slippage, shifts fine until light comes back on.

Did the clutch relearn, it took but symptoms are still there. If I jump the red plug under seat, 'N' flashes 5 slow and 7 fast. No dash for gear indicator, but always 'N'. Even when trying to erase the code, it always showed 'N' and not '--'. I was unable to erase the code, always 57. Service manual says code is for Gear mechanism malfuntion. Go to page 11-42, says to refer to DTC 27-1 (page 11-31). Go there and all the checks require the MCS which I assume is the Honda dealer diagnostic tool. So no way for a non-dealer to check it. Visual inspection of TR sensor shows no issues.

I can't find the sensor that triggers the clutch light on the dash. I would like to look at it before going any further. Otherwise I will pull the clutch cover off and look at the clutch. I have the Honda extended warranty but I have absolutely no confidence that it would be covered, especially with 4500 miles. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

I'm sure you checked, but what's the oil level look like?

 

[HondaTech]

Was riding this last week, the tranny wouldn't shift, the clutch overheat light came on and engine died. If I shut key off and on, it would start right up. I could drive it, but it wouldn't shift and if I went fast enough for it to shift, clutch light came on again and died. I was able to limp it to the trailhead if I kept it under 10mph. When cold, I could drive it for a few miles, no clutch slippage, shifts fine until light comes back on.

Did the clutch relearn, it took but symptoms are still there. If I jump the red plug under seat, 'N' flashes 5 slow and 7 fast. No dash for gear indicator, but always 'N'. Even when trying to erase the code, it always showed 'N' and not '--'. I was unable to erase the code, always 57. Service manual says code is for Gear mechanism malfuntion. Go to page 11-42, says to refer to DTC 27-1 (page 11-31). Go there and all the checks require the MCS which I assume is the Honda dealer diagnostic tool. So no way for a non-dealer to check it. Visual inspection of TR sensor shows no issues.

I can't find the sensor that triggers the clutch light on the dash. I would like to look at it before going any further. Otherwise I will pull the clutch cover off and look at the clutch. I have the Honda extended warranty but I have absolutely no confidence that it would be covered, especially with 4500 miles. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

There is no "sensor" for the clutch light, they are using data from the Oil Temperature Sensor that triggers the light at a set parameter.

Did you remove the ground on the enigne next to the starter motor? If not verify its tight, with a wrench not by hand.


On the front of the engine, near the sub trans sort of under the front exhaust header is the TR sensor. There will be a small plate covering the sensor, the connector is near the timing hole plug. Make sure nothing has gotten into the wires or connector.

Of that's OK, then maybe you've for a bad shift motor. But it could be a few other things.

If you have HPP, there shouldn't be any reason it isn't covered. Unless something destroyed the wiring or connector (stick, mice, etc)

 

[adudes]

I'm sure you checked, but what's the oil level look like?

yes that was the first thing I checked. Level is good, not discolored, doesn't smell burnt.

 

[adudes]

There is no "sensor" for the clutch light, they are using data from the Oil Temperature Sensor that triggers the light at a set parameter.

Did you remove the ground on the enigne next to the starter motor? If not verify its tight, with a wrench not by hand.


On the front of the engine, near the sub trans sort of under the front exhaust header is the TR sensor. There will be a small plate covering the sensor, the connector is near the timing hole plug. Make sure nothing has gotten into the wires or connector.

Of that's OK, then maybe you've for a bad shift motor. But it could be a few other things.

If you have HPP, there shouldn't be any reason it isn't covered. Unless something destroyed the wiring or connector (stick, mice, etc)

Yes, I removed the ground next to starter, it was tight. I removed the one under the seat, the one by the starter and both ends of the cable that goes from engine to frame on left side. Are there any I missed?

I removed the plate and TR sensor and it looked fine. I'll check the connector. Service manual says to check voltage with the MCS. Is there any way to check the sensor for voltage or ohms with a multi-meter?

I was thinking of a bad clutch when I was referring to warranty coverage. I bought the machine used, and the dealer I used to work with is no longer a Honda dealer. I can go to one of 4 Honda dealers, all about 45 minutes away, I just have to decide whether to travel North, South, East or West. Never having bought anything from any of them, I don't know who to trust.

 

[adudes]

So I checked the connector for the TR sensor. I removed the shift motor and hooked it up to a battery and it spins both ways.

I ended up taking it to the Honda dealer on Monday to have them diagnose it and hopefully have whatever is wrong covered under warranty. I got the call today, they were able to duplicate the problem and diagnose code 57-1. They checked oil pressure to the clutches, all good. They said the clutches are fried and need replacing.

$3500!!! That seems way too high so I will be picking it up Saturday and doing it myself. I was a Honda tech for 10 years, but its been 16 years since I've been at my current job. I feel confident in doing the job so we'll see how easy or hard of a job it is.

 

[HondaTech]

So I checked the connector for the TR sensor. I removed the shift motor and hooked it up to a battery and it spins both ways.

I ended up taking it to the Honda dealer on Monday to have them diagnose it and hopefully have whatever is wrong covered under warranty. I got the call today, they were able to duplicate the problem and diagnose code 57-1. They checked oil pressure to the clutches, all good. They said the clutches are fried and need replacing.

$3500!!! That seems way too high so I will be picking it up Saturday and doing it myself. I was a Honda tech for 10 years, but its been 16 years since I've been at my current job. I feel confident in doing the job so we'll see how easy or hard of a job it is.

Damm, we need to up our pricing.

I think we do 8 hours plus parts for Talon clutches. So probably under $2k I think

 

[adudes]

Damm, we need to up our pricing.

I think we do 8 hours plus parts for Talon clutches. So probably under $2k I think

I would have probably paid it if it was around $1500. I wonder if they have never done one and are adding extra labor, or think they need to pull the motor.

 

[adudes]

I picked it up from the dealer and they gave me a copy of the estimate. 5 hours labor @136/hr = $680, parts were $2500. They told me $3500 to give themselves a cushion. The tech claims he could smell a burnt clutch but I didn't notice that and the oil looked clean.

I called a couple other dealers in the area, one wouldn't give me even a ballpark estimate without the machine there. 2 told me worst case 8 hours labor plus parts. One talked to the tech who didn't think it was the clutch based on the symptoms and code.

So, I'm still deciding to if I'm going to tear into it myself or not.

 

[adudes]

Pulled the DCT filter out, the oil looked good and there was no smell like a burnt clutch. I watch a couple YouTube videos and the clutch looks pretty easy to pull out, as long as you don't follow the service manual. But I'm not convinced it is the clutch at this point.

 

[IDIOT]

Any new updates?

 

[adudes]

Any new updates?

Friday 7-7, I called a couple of dealers to feel them out. One of them I called, the service writer talked to his tech and based on the symptoms I was describing, doesn't think it's the clutch and neither do I. Picked up the Talon on Sat 7-8 and after checking the DCT filter and thinking about my next move over the weekend, I ended up taking it to dealer #2 on Tues 7-11. They are two weeks out so hopefully will hear something this coming week.

 

[adudes]

Got a call from the dealer Tues 7/25, said it was the TR sensor. Got another call on Sat 7/29, said part came in but they ordered the wrong part, it will be a few more days. Got a call Thurs 8/3, code 57 went away with the new TR sensor but now another code popped up. Service writer didn't know what code it was, only what part needed to be ordered which I don't remember what that was either. So waiting again, hopefully part will show up early this next week.

I've been running errands with the 700xx, and while it's fun to ride, I miss the Talon.

 

[DRZRon1]

I smell parts changing as a troubleshooting method

 

[IDIOT]

Thanks for the update.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I smell parts changing as a troubleshooting method

100%

 

[adudes]

I smell parts changing as a troubleshooting method

I guess I'm fine with them replacing as many parts as they want as long as it's covered under warranty.

I called for an update on 8/12, it had been over a week since I heard anything. I called when they opened at 9am, service writer took a message for the other service writer I was dealing with. 1pm, still no call back so I called again. Same service writer took another message. Got a call at 145, said tech was working on it, he'll call me back in 20 minutes. They close at 3, never heard back.

I waited 2 full working days (they're closed Mondays) before calling 8/17. Service writer says the 40 degree sensor didn't fix it, machine still goes into limp mode and clutch overheat light comes on. They are thinking ECM but now are getting Honda involved before going any further. It will be 6 weeks this Tuesday.

 

[adudes]

After discussing with Honda service rep, they determined the clutch is bad. Estimate is $2100, way cheaper than the $3500 other dealer quoted. They had 5 parts on the estimate, other dealer had over 30 (yes 30). I picked it up Sat 9/2 and promptly tore into it. I removed the clutch in under 2 hours. Clutch looks good to me. No discoloration, doesn't smell burnt. I'm taking the clutch ass'y to the dealer this week for another opinion and to ask what their next step would be if I would have had them replace the clutch.