P1000m5 FYI Dead Cylinder

[P1000_DLux]

Posting this just in case anyone else has something similar happen (hopefully you don't)

2020 P1000-5 Deluxe
ODO: 3300 miles
Bought brand new in 2020 (only owner) from Brothers Powersports in Bremerton, WA

One day in early January 2025, I started up my Pioneer and it was rough idling really bad and blowing white smoke wouldn't go forward or backward without dying. After some YouTube looking and so on I came to a couple things that led me to replace the following as a trouble shoot prior to taking it to a shop...

What I replaced:
Spark Plugs
Coil Packs
Air Filter
Fuel injectors
Both Batteries

Outcome: No change

Trouble shooting performed:
Pulled coil boot off forward cylinder while idle (Nothing happened) kept idling
Pulled coil boot off aft cylinder while idle (Machine died)
Pulled forward spark plug and verified spark (Spark present)

Outcome: Took machine to Brothers Honda (3/1/25) (dealership of purchase) (belief at this point that the cause is blown head gasket burning antifreeze) (Quote for replacement of head gasket $1800)

Dealer Disassembles:
Call today (3/6/25): Anti-freeze no found to be burning from head gasket, and mechanic finds that valves in forward cylinder are blowing oil into cylinder causing no ignition of fuel.

Outcome:
Replace head gasket (Already disassembled so safe than sorry)
Replace valves
New quote ($2300.00)

Hopefully this fixes my machine and all is well after. This posts intention is not to bash the dealer or the cost, understood things are expensive and shop hours are expensive, it is what it is, if you can't/don't want to do it yourself, which I don't but if this happens to someone maybe it can save you some time trying to figure it out.

My guess is that a failure on my part to adjust the valves led to this problem, but I will confirm with the dealership when I pick it up.

 

[Admin]

 

[hondabob]

Hopefully they checked the valve clearance and did a leak down and compression test. I checked the valve clearance on my Talon at 38,500 miles and one exhaust valve was out of spec .001" so I could have been ok to around 60,000 miles. Valves won't let oil into the cylinder unless the valve guide seals are missing or not installed properly. You will get blue smoke, but it will still run.

 

[906UP]

@P1000_DLux did you check the wires on the fuel injector connectors, that is a common problem and could cause a similar issue.

 

[P1K5Dave]

Let us know how it comes out. Hopefully they have properly diagnosed your problem, but the bad take on the head gasket / anti-freeze makes me a bit wary.

 

[DRZRon1]

@P1000_DLux did you check the wires on the fuel injector connectors, that is a common problem and could cause a similar issue.

stop it - makes too much sense

 

[DRZRon1]

Posting this just in case anyone else has something similar happen (hopefully you don't)

2020 P1000-5 Deluxe
ODO: 3300 miles
Bought brand new in 2020 (only owner) from Brothers Powersports in Bremerton, WA

One day in early January 2025, I started up my Pioneer and it was rough idling really bad and blowing white smoke wouldn't go forward or backward without dying. After some YouTube looking and so on I came to a couple things that led me to replace the following as a trouble shoot prior to taking it to a shop...

What I replaced:
Spark Plugs
Coil Packs
Air Filter
Fuel injectors
Both Batteries

Outcome: No change

Trouble shooting performed:
Pulled coil boot off forward cylinder while idle (Nothing happened) kept idling
Pulled coil boot off aft cylinder while idle (Machine died)
Pulled forward spark plug and verified spark (Spark present)

Outcome: Took machine to Brothers Honda (3/1/25) (dealership of purchase) (belief at this point that the cause is blown head gasket burning antifreeze) (Quote for replacement of head gasket $1800)

Dealer Disassembles:
Call today (3/6/25): Anti-freeze no found to be burning from head gasket, and mechanic finds that valves in forward cylinder are blowing oil into cylinder causing no ignition of fuel.

Outcome:
Replace head gasket (Already disassembled so safe than sorry)
Replace valves
New quote ($2300.00)

Hopefully this fixes my machine and all is well after. This posts intention is not to bash the dealer or the cost, understood things are expensive and shop hours are expensive, it is what it is, if you can't/don't want to do it yourself, which I don't but if this happens to someone maybe it can save you some time trying to figure it out.

My guess is that a failure on my part to adjust the valves led to this problem, but I will confirm with the dealership when I pick it up.

questions and some friendly advice

-on the dead cylinder - what did the plug look like before and after you changed it ?

-did the dead cylinder plug smell like oil and or fuel?

-at some point did the main battery ever go completely dead and need to be charged/jumped ?

-it’s never ever the coils - btw

I highly highly highly doubt not checking the valves contributed to this - see post from Hondabob -this is the norm - my hunch is 99% don’t ever check em and skinny pedal down - it’s a Honda engine!!!!

please come back with root cause, I’m interested to learn how changing the valves can lead to excess oiling since they have nothing to do with excess oil - just the $5 valve seal on the top side controls oil leakage down the valve stem to the cylinder to my knowledge

 

[P1K5Dave]

did you check the wires on the fuel injector connectors

Ohhhh - this should absolutely be checked first.

I hope his dealership has not overlooked this, because this could be an expensive mistake.

 

[P1000_DLux]

questions and some friendly advice

-on the dead cylinder - what did the plug look like before and after you changed it ?

-did the dead cylinder plug smell like oil and or fuel?

-at some point did the main battery ever go completely dead and need to be charged/jumped ?

-it’s never ever the coils - btw

I highly highly highly doubt not checking the valves contributed to this - see post from Hondabob -this is the norm - my hunch is 99% don’t ever check em and skinny pedal down - it’s a Honda engine!!!!

please come back with root cause, I’m interested to learn how changing the valves can lead to excess oiling since they have nothing to do with excess oil - just the $5 valve seal on the top side controls oil leakage down the valve stem to the cylinder to my knowledge

 

[P1000_DLux]

View attachment 461260

View attachment 461261

The blackened one is from the dead cylinder.

 

[P1000_DLux]

questions and some friendly advice

-on the dead cylinder - what did the plug look like before and after you changed it ?

-did the dead cylinder plug smell like oil and or fuel?

-at some point did the main battery ever go completely dead and need to be charged/jumped ?

-it’s never ever the coils - btw

I highly highly highly doubt not checking the valves contributed to this - see post from Hondabob -this is the norm - my hunch is 99% don’t ever check em and skinny pedal down - it’s a Honda engine!!!!

please come back with root cause, I’m interested to learn how changing the valves can lead to excess oiling since they have nothing to do with excess oil - just the $5 valve seal on the top side controls oil leakage down the valve stem to the cylinder to my knowledge

Yes both batteries were completely dead. This is due to a mis wiring on my part that I need to fix because when the machine is shut down my wench rocker switch stays illuminated.

 

[P1000_DLux]

questions and some friendly advice

-on the dead cylinder - what did the plug look like before and after you changed it ?

-did the dead cylinder plug smell like oil and or fuel?

-at some point did the main battery ever go completely dead and need to be charged/jumped ?

-it’s never ever the coils - btw

I highly highly highly doubt not checking the valves contributed to this - see post from Hondabob -this is the norm - my hunch is 99% don’t ever check em and skinny pedal down - it’s a Honda engine!!!!

please come back with root cause, I’m interested to learn how changing the valves can lead to excess oiling since they have nothing to do with excess oil - just the $5 valve seal on the top side controls oil leakage down the valve stem to the cylinder to my knowledge

Where is the post from Hondabob, I would like to read it. I saw the injector wiring in the SXS shop and am going to buy 2. What I'm looking to figure out from the post or maybe you already know is, what would be an indicator of the wiring being damaged outside the obvious frayed wires or cut wires? If the wires are intact what test can you do to see if the fuel injectors are not working?

 

[P1000_DLux]

Hopefully they checked the valve clearance and did a leak down and compression test. I checked the valve clearance on my Talon at 38,500 miles and one exhaust valve was out of spec .001" so I could have been ok to around 60,000 miles. Valves won't let oil into the cylinder unless the valve guide seals are missing or not installed properly. You will get blue smoke, but it will still run.

Did you do a post on the faulty wiring on the fuel injectors, if so could you route me to it?

 

[Neohio]

Where is the post from Hondabob, I would like to read it. I saw the injector wiring in the SXS shop and am going to buy 2. What I'm looking to figure out from the post or maybe you already know is, what would be an indicator of the wiring being damaged outside the obvious frayed wires or cut wires? If the wires are intact what test can you do to see if the fuel injectors are not working?

I highlighted some of the testing procedure in this thread.

P1000 - PGM-FI DTC 12/13 (Fuel Injector)

Good day ladies and gentlemen! My Labour day weekend riding was cut short due to some rear fuel injector issues. Chalmers is throwing a code 13 rear injector. I have had problems recreating the problem. It only seems to surface once I have ridden for quite some time. Makes be believe it is heat...

hondasxs.com

 

[DRZRon1]

Where is the post from Hondabob, I would like to read it. I saw the injector wiring in the SXS shop and am going to buy 2. What I'm looking to figure out from the post or maybe you already know is, what would be an indicator of the wiring being damaged outside the obvious frayed wires or cut wires? If the wires are intact what test can you do to see if the fuel injectors are not working?

post #2 in this thread - he must sleep like 2 hours a day and slap paddles the other 22 hours - 40k miles - madman nut !!!!

hard to say but that plug looks dry - not oil soaked

good luck

 

[P1000_DLux]

So found the thread and read through it. The only thing I'm unsure about is that the machine never threw a error code 12/13. Would it always throw those codes if the wiring is messed up to the injector? I'm going to call the dealer and suggest they check this. I'm also buying the kit from the SXS store.

 

[Neohio]

So found the thread and read through it. The only thing I'm unsure about is that the machine never threw a error code 12/13. Would it always throw those codes if the wiring is messed up to the injector? I'm going to call the dealer and suggest they check this. I'm also buying the kit from the SXS store.

I have heard that the repair plugs will fix an issue. Some times it will not throw a code.
Some years are also known for needing a new PGM-FI/ECM/Computer due to a bad injector circuit on the PCB.

 

[P1K5Dave]

Yes both batteries were completely dead. This is due to a mis wiring on my part that I need to fix because when the machine is shut down my wench rocker switch stays illuminated.

Side note - if you have dual batteries you should never have drained both batteries on an illuminated rocker switch (that must've taken months...)

There should be an isolator between the two, and all of your add-ons - especially the winch - should be on the auxiliary battery circuit. Then your primary battery never gets touched and keeps all of your systems working right (especially starting.)

Sorry for the aside, but had to make a note.

 

[P1000_DLux]

Side note - if you have dual batteries you should never have drained both batteries on an illuminated rocker switch (that must've taken months...)

There should be an isolator between the two, and all of your add-ons - especially the winch - should be on the auxiliary battery circuit. Then your primary battery never gets touched and keeps all of your systems working right (especially starting.)

Sorry for the aside, but had to make a note.

No that's good stuff. I do have an isolator installed but I think I wired back to the main battery from the aux battery. I installed the winch to the aux battery, and I also have a fuse box installed off the aux battery for all the other lights. It does take a long time to drain the batteries, I'll send a picture of my rats nest of a wiring job when I get my machine back and we can discuss my misunderstanding of proper wiring once its back to running.