Good gun for open carry.

[BigOL3]

A little caliber war info with scientific data...

9mm Versus .45 acp

Read that forum, extremely good info on all aspects of firearms and training.


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I will take FIRST HAND knowledge over that data any day. If I really believed that, I would start deer hunting with a 22, instead of 270, since the difference in energy must not matter.

 

[Smitty335]

Nope, it’s all ballistics data and real world reports of actual shootings.

I’m not here to change your mind, carry and shoot what you like.


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I use the milk jug filled with water test, 9mm just pokes a hole, 45ACP explodes, not to scientific and doesn't take a chronograph. HA! I HAVE A BERETA 9MM OLD STYLE FRAME, FOR SALE? Sorry didn't have my hearing aids in!

 

[Smitty335]

I will take FIRST HAND knowledge over that data any day. If I really believed that, I would start deer hunting with a 22, instead of 270, since the difference in energy must not matter.

Truth be known, probably more deer taken and wasted with a 22 cal than any other. Due to the cheap rounds price, for people that were short of funds and food.

 

[jmcampbell54]

It’s all good, carry on.


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[JTW]

I will take FIRST HAND knowledge over that data any day. If I really believed that, I would start deer hunting with a 22, instead of 270, since the difference in energy must not matter.

While I will say that the 9mm ammo of today is better than that of 20-30 years ago. If it’s a subsonic round.. bigger IS better! That’s not taking weight, capacity or anything else into account, as I believe that’s a personal preference thing. But Statistics can be manipulated to support any claim... look at climate change! Lol.. Sometimes that old school logic and first hand experience is more accurate than the lastest data! I’d just assume not get shot with either.. but there’s a reason a shotgun with buck and slugs is sitting by the bed.

 

[BigOL3]

While I will say that the 9mm ammo of today is better than that of 20-30 years ago. If it’s a subsonic round.. bigger IS better! That’s not taking weight, capacity or anything else into account, as I believe that’s a personal preference thing. But Statistics can be manipulated to support any claim... look at climate change! Lol.. Sometimes that old school logic and first hand experience is more accurate than the lastest data! I’d just assume not get shot with either.. but there’s a reason a shotgun with buck and slugs is sitting by the bed.

No doubt a 9mm can kill a man, so can a 22 ...... with IDEAL shot placement. In the heat of battle, no one will make perfect shots everytime. Bigger is not better, IF a person can not effectively shot it. In that case, get something they can control. For those that CAN put the heavy rounds in the kill zone, I call it good insurance.

 

[Smitty335]

No doubt a 9mm can kill a man, so can a 22 ...... with IDEAL shot placement. In the heat of battle, no one will make perfect shots everytime. Bigger is not better, IF a person can not effectively shot it. In that case, get something they can control. For those that CAN put the heavy rounds in the kill zone, I call it good insurance.

WelI I need a little time to think about that, Ok enough time, bigger is better!

 

[JTW]

No doubt a 9mm can kill a man, so can a 22 ...... with IDEAL shot placement. In the heat of battle, no one will make perfect shots everytime. Bigger is not better, IF a person can not effectively shot it. In that case, get something they can control. For those that CAN put the heavy rounds in the kill zone, I call it good insurance.

Agreed... one of the main reasons departments in this part of the world transitioned were female officers and smaller stature men that couldn’t shoot the heavier recoil. Also, that was the time of the magazine capacity craze.

 

[Tuco69]

While I will say that the 9mm ammo of today is better than that of 20-30 years ago. If it’s a subsonic round.. bigger IS better! That’s not taking weight, capacity or anything else into account, as I believe that’s a personal preference thing. But Statistics can be manipulated to support any claim... look at climate change! Lol.. Sometimes that old school logic and first hand experience is more accurate than the lastest data! I’d just assume not get shot with either.. but there’s a reason a shotgun with buck and slugs is sitting by the bed.

Nothing says you don’t need to be here than the sound of racking a shell in a pump 12 gauge!

 

[Dp5hunter]

Nothing says you don’t need to be here than the sound of racking a shell in a pump 12 gauge!

Yea, it's like hearing gods voice saying get the f*** out while you still can.

 

[jmcampbell54]

Out of curiosity how many here attend regular training classes or train/practice with a structured plan for each session? Is it just fun range time slinging lead down range or is it a structured practice session with goals and performance standards?


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[Dp5hunter]

Out of curiosity how many here attend regular training classes or train/practice with a structured plan for each session? Is it just fun range time slinging lead down range or is it a structured practice session with goals and performance standards?


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Just shooting for fun and some practice.
Edit- my father toute me what I know about shooting.

 

[JTW]

Nothing says you don’t need to be here than the sound of racking a shell in a pump 12 gauge!

Yea, it's like hearing gods voice saying get the f*** out while you still can.

Maybe for the second guy...

 

[elkguide]

Out of curiosity how many here attend regular training classes or train/practice with a structured plan for each session? Is it just fun range time slinging lead down range or is it a structured practice session with goals and performance standards?


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Practice regularly. Shoot a lot for training and for fun.
What was embarrassing was at the neighbors range shooting a couple of months ago and was watching a couple of police officers shooting a course and when they finished they wanted to handle the Kimber that I had been shooting. We got talking about shooting and one of them started running his mouth and putting down "citizens carrying" and being able to shoot accurately. I asked if he would let me handle and shoot his weapon and proceeded to outshoot him with his own weapon.

That's why I carry and practice. Somebody has to be there when push comes to shove!

 

[jmcampbell54]

Practice regularly. Shoot a lot for training and for fun.
What was embarrassing was at the neighbors range shooting a couple of months ago and was watching a couple of police officers shooting a course and when they finished they wanted to handle the Kimber that I had been shooting. We got talking about shooting and one of them started running his mouth and putting down "citizens carrying" and being able to shoot accurately. I asked if he would let me handle and shoot his weapon and proceeded to outshoot him with his own weapon.

That's why I carry and practice. Somebody has to be there when push comes to shove!

Putting in the work and doing it right.

Good drill is the 10x10x10 “The Test”

10 yards 10 rounds 10 seconds to a B8 target
90+ points is pass 89 and below is fail.
Shoot from concealment.

Better test is 25x10x10
25 yards 10 rounds 10 seconds

Train hard, train safe.


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[Smitty335]

While I will say that the 9mm ammo of today is better than that of 20-30 years ago. If it’s a subsonic round.. bigger IS better! That’s not taking weight, capacity or anything else into account, as I believe that’s a personal preference thing. But Statistics can be manipulated to support any claim... look at climate change! Lol.. Sometimes that old school logic and first hand experience is more accurate than the lastest data! I’d just assume not get shot with either.. but there’s a reason a shotgun with buck and slugs is sitting by the bed.

My wife is scared to death of guns, I have wondered if any one makes a devise that sounds like a pump shot gun being chambered? That would be perfect for her.

 

[BigOL3]

Out of curiosity how many here attend regular training classes or train/practice with a structured plan for each session? Is it just fun range time slinging lead down range or is it a structured practice session with goals and performance standards?

Trained regularly for 32+ yrs with LSP. Since retiring we have a yearly 're-qualify training' for retirees to meet LEO CC requirement. I have missed the last 3 due to conflict dates for turkey season.

Just last week I went to shoot at the family range and was amazed how the muscle memory was still so functional after a 3 yr layoff, esp with the .357mag. That is on top of the 'age' and old eyes. 25yds brings out the weakness of the old eyes, but 10 yrds is still ...... shame on him!

Putting in the work and doing it right.

Good drill is the 10x10x10 “The Test”

10 yards 10 rounds 10 seconds to a B8 target
90+ points is pass 89 and below is fail.
Shoot from concealment.

Better test is 25x10x10
25 yards 10 rounds 10 seconds

Nothing wrong with training at 25 yds, but most police/self defense shooting are up close and personal. Yes, we trained from 3-25yds, with time limits. Training at 10yds with time limit is really good. Training at 3-5 yds is even better. At 3 yds, we had the gun tucked tight into your side, just above the holster, and shoot instinctive, no aim. Put the most training in the area that most likely (odds are) will occur. For individuals self defense, I would put 75% of time at 10 yds or less.

 

[oldfortyfive]

Illinois requires 16 hours for a ccw. I do practice drawing, firing and reloading regularly. It’s always interesting to see how quickly you get clumsy.

 

[SFC]

I believe that the best carry gun is one that you are comfortable with shooting. If it doesn’t fit then it won’t work.
I also agree that you must spent time using the gun. Not everyone is a police officer or had military training and to me that doesn’t matter. PRACTICE does.


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[oldfortyfive]

I believe that the best carry gun is one that you are comfortable with shooting. If it doesn’t fit then it won’t work.
I also agree that you must spent time using the gun. Not everyone is a police officer or had military training and to me that doesn’t matter. PRACTICE does.

So true. The reality is caliber doesn’t matter. It’s what you can reliably hit with.

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