P1000 Ham Radio / Comms Installation

[Remote]

That's a nice clean looking install/setup.
I'm curious why you have two of the same model radio since it is already dual band and covers everything including GMRS?

We often visit places with "inquiring minds"about and I want to be completely legal. Can't use the 8600 on GMRS as it isn't type certified for that useage.......even though it would work perfectly fine. So GMRS License for one radio and KD0VCM for the other.

 

[Admin]

 

[elkaholic]

Looks like the FCC finally caught up with Rugged

FCC takes action against marketing of unauthorized transceivers
On November 24 FCC Enforcement Bureau (EB) issued a citation and order concerning the illegal marketing of unauthorized radio frequency devices

The citation says:

This CITATION AND ORDER (Citation), notifies Rugged Race Products, Inc. d/b/a
Rugged Radios (Rugged Radios or Company) that it unlawfully marketed six models of radio frequency devices that (a) operated outside the scope of their respective equipment authorization, or without any equipment authorization; (b) permitted any operator to program and transmit on new frequencies using the device’s external operation controls; and (c) lacked the appropriate labeling. Specifically, Rugged Radios marketed models RH5R-V2, RM25R, RM25R-WP, RM50R, RM60-V, and RM100 in violation of section 302(b) of the Communications Act, as amended (Act), and sections 2.803(b), 2.925(a)(1), 80.203(a), 90.203(a), 90.203(e), 95.361(a), and 95.391 of the Commission’s rules.

Read the Citation and Order at
https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-20-1395A1.pdf

Source FCC Enforcement Bureau
Enforcement

This is gonna make my little side business interesting. I will be reading this closely and digesting it. I already have fully compliant GMRS radios in the way of Midland’s products. I will have to review my other offerings .....


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[HondaRed16]

This is very interesting I've always wondered when the hammer would fall on these guys. PCI and the likes of them are probably next however notice to your point none of their product can be field programmed.

I'm not an attorney but I think you are ok...with that said you probably should have one that is familiar with communication laws go over the order toward Rugged that is referenced in the earlier post. You may have to switch to selling equipment that can't be field programmed without connecting to a computer. Also I'd suggest as Remote said answering me... that you not program any frequency into the radios you sell that exceed power or band width and/or find a way to lock it out (such as GMRS on the same radio as the higher wattage frequencies). But you may very well be on the right path and not sell anything with a keypad on it at that can program itself!

You may also want to included statements on your website showing licensed required and links to obtain them. However again you need legal advice as to if that would help protect you or make it more of an issue since it is kind of admitting some understanding of the FCC laws.

Keep us in the loop please.

 

[elkaholic]

This is very interesting I've always wondered when the hammer would fall on these guys. PCI and the likes of them are probably next however notice to your point none of their product can be field programmed.

I'm not an attorney but I think you are ok...with that said you probably should have one that is familiar with communication laws go over the order toward Rugged that is referenced in the earlier post. You may have to switch to selling equipment that can't be field programmed without connecting to a computer. Also I'd suggest as Remote said answering me... that you not program any frequency into the radios you sell that exceed power or band width and/or find a way to lock it out (such as GMRS on the same radio as the higher wattage frequencies). But you may very well be on the right path and not sell anything with a keypad on it at that can program itself!

You may also want to included statements on your website showing licensed required and links to obtain them. However again you need legal advice as to if that would help protect you or make it more of an issue since it is kind of admitting some understanding of the FCC laws.

Keep us in the loop please.

Will do.

From launch my site has had license links and terms of use stating that licensing is required for most of the radios I sell.

The radios that are out are programmed within the requirements of the various frequencies with respect to power output and bandwidth. I may shift to the TYT and Baofengs being sold as non-programmed HAM radios ...

It is interesting that there are other BIG names selling rebadged 8600s as GMRS radios ....


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[Dirtstiffs-1000]

Will do.

From launch my site has had license links and terms of use stating that licensing is required for most of the radios I sell.

The radios that are out are programmed within the requirements of the various frequencies with respect to power output and bandwidth. I may shift to the TYT and Baofengs being sold as non-programmed HAM radios ...

It is interesting that there are other BIG names selling rebadged 8600s as GMRS radios ....


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Your disclaimer in a legal world is sufficient.
Part 95
I just bought the GMRS license at my own risk.

 

[Haldog77]

Will do.

From launch my site has had license links and terms of use stating that licensing is required for most of the radios I sell.

The radios that are out are programmed within the requirements of the various frequencies with respect to power output and bandwidth. I may shift to the TYT and Baofengs being sold as non-programmed HAM radios ...

It is interesting that there are other BIG names selling rebadged 8600s as GMRS radios ....


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I think the lic. is good for the whole family and it is good for ten years like an amateur Ham radio lic. GMRS can not be operated over 2 watts with out a lic. and FRS cannot go over 0.5 watts. The TYT 8600 runs about 20 watts on high and I think somewhere around 7 watts on low. I will recheck mine and make sure that is correct. This reminds me of the 1970's when C.B radios ruled and everybody had boosted the power 10-20 times what was legal.

 

[Remote]

Interesting discussion. I have watched the "race radio" industry with a dropped jaw as in how do they get away with this for a while now.I do have an email from Rugged stating that their GMR25 is type certified and useable for GMRS service only. A quick hook up to a power supply and scrolling thru the menus seems to indicate that it is locked into GMRS and not programmable to xmit out of band. The car I'm installing in is loud and open so weather proof and an intercom interface (which the GMR25 has) is hi priority. My Pioneer is cab enclosed and a Midland will sit next to my 2 meter Kenwood with no issues other than coming up with an efficient antenna set up. The other pioneer will need a weather resistant radio......Midland, are you listening?

For practical purposes, a licensed amateur can run an unlocked radio if they keep to their bands and power restrictions from what I understand. Most of my amateur radios have a physical methodology to unlock such as cutting a diode lead. If your not licensed, unlocking turns an amature band radio you can't legally use to an unlocked radio you can't legally use.

 

[elkaholic]

Yes, the MARS mod ....


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[HondaRed16]

I think the issue with Rugged was they were selling radios that they said were FCC compliant (and the those...all radios are supposed to have a label saying so with an FCC ID number on the label) the product they sold were not compliant nor did it have the proper labeling. They were also telling people how to re-program them in the field and were using frequencies called race channels shipped universally throughout the country that in California might used for a weekend desert race but in another eastern state it is a public safety channel, not to mention interfering with HAM repeaters. In the radio world nobody owns a channel, the FCC issues a license and frequency to use them and where. As you travel throughout the country that changes. Some of you more knowledgeable HAM guys more experienced than me (I was licensed a long time ago but not in decades) chime in here and educate us further.

 

[Remote]

I think the issue with Rugged was they were selling radios that they said were FCC compliant (and the those...all radios are supposed to have a label saying so with an FCC ID number on the label) the product they sold were not compliant nor did it have the proper labeling. They were also telling people how to re-program them in the field and were using frequencies called race channels shipped universally throughout the country that in California might used for a weekend desert race but in another eastern state it is a public safety channel, not to mention interfering with HAM repeaters. In the radio world nobody owns a channel, the FCC issues a license and frequency to use them and where. As you travel throughout the country that changes. Some of you more knowledgeable HAM guys more experienced than me (I was licensed a long time ago but not in decades) chime in here and educate us further.

That's pretty much what happened. Marine channels, fire safety channels, public hospitals, all walked on, or potentially walked on. A lot of grey area double talk, but fine print on the Rugged site saying that the VFH chanmels were for work purposes only. I watched an RT systems you tube tutorial on programming suggesting marine channels were fair game because, "hey you are in the desert."

I've come across some boards where Rugged users were absolutely militant and calling out fuddy duddy amateur geezers who should just go away and leave them alone to use their channels. Breathtaking ignorance of how the system works and what VHF commercial is. On the other side, amature and more professional boards are aghast over channel pirates rendering oil, marine, health and public safety channels almost useless.

It is mind boggling how far this has spun out of control. I was to the point where I thought that politicians were being bought. Considering the potential business killing sanctions, it will be very interesting to see how this pans out.

 

[HondaRed16]

BTW, the Rugged labeled RDM-DB they sell is bad ass and I want one bad.
It's 50 watt, both digital & analog as well as UHF-VHF and it is FCC compliant from everything I've read so far.
It is a relabeled TYT MD-9600 for $50 - $90 more but they program it which is complicated with digital equipment and they add their own jumper cable to connect to the Rugged intercom products which I think we can all agree they do a very good job of and so far I haven't found anyone to say that product is re-labeled or by whom.
What I don't like which I'm sure they've done to be more FCC compliant is they do not include the programming software or the driver/cable that comes with the TYT labeled version to add or remove frequencies or features.
I also want that GMR25 water-proof model

I hang with a Jeep club that have all gone to this product and have personally used this rig, it transmits quite far over mountains, etc. and is crystal clear. BTW, this is with a bunch of guys that installed them themselves in-correctly I might add with the antennas between the tire & the back of the Jeep, just barley with some of it sticking above the roof line, not grounded properly, CB grade coax (you get the picture) and the RDM-DB still performed well.

 

[JAL]

Powerpoles installed off a second battery. Radio is just hanging there for the photo op:

 

[HondaRed16]

Powerpoles installed off a second battery. Radio is just hanging there for the photo op:

View attachment 241348

Damnnn, now that’s a rig!
Nice!
Is it waterproof, you have a big enough mobile antenna for it?

 

[JAL]

HondaRed16... I think the IC-705 would short in a heavy fog

I just used it to test the wiring and as a sexy photo prop! I use the 705 as my backpacking/SOTA/mobile radio with a push up 20 foot mast and a 20-30-40M wire dipole.

I can easily strap the push up mast to the Honda and secure it with a single guy "wire" and the two ends of the antenna for rapid deployment.

 

[annoyed]

Wow this thread blew up.

I’d love to say that I have everything installed, but that’ll have to wait a few weeks. Unfortunately I ended up getting the covid through work and have been stuck on the couch the past few weeks. Sigh.

 

[JAL]

Hope you are doing better annoyed.

Here is my install of a Midland 15 watt GMRS MicroMobile Radio with the hand mic/speaker/controls. The unit slides out and there are quick connects, BNC for the antenna coax and PowerPole for the 12 volt power supply. This unit is probably IPX 0 so not what most folks are looking for. On the other hand, I can just slide it out when it is not needed and the price is reasonable if I need to replace it. Besides, it plays well with my Midland GMRS Handy Talkies.

I have an SWR under 2.0 with a Chameleon "RV" antenna _if_ I mount the antenna as high as possible. I had to shorten the coax cable and cut it to length to minimize the power loss over the coax run.

Edit on calculations

HT MicroMobile Gain dB

5 watts 15 watts. 4.8
Rubber Ducky (-5dB) Chameleon 2.5 dB 7.5 (UHF only)
No Coax 15 feet RG8X -1.3

So if my math is correct a net gain of 11.0 dB on transmit and 6.2 dB on receive over the Handy Talky and probably some gain from the higher mounting point.

 

[annoyed]

That’s very similar to my buddy’s setup I’m his pioneer. He’s not a ham and uses his rig only for hunting. Works great and has a fairly impressive range for where we are at. He mounts his antenna fairly low, but we still get several miles between his rig and the handheld rig I use on my hunting pack. (I have a fairly tall diamond antenna on my pack)

I’ve been down 4 weeks so far, doc seems to think another 2 weeks and I’ll be up and going again. Really hope so. Keeping up on various forums and Amazon.... I really need to get back to work. Hah.

 

[Remote]

My GMRS ground plane mount project for another UTV is showing some really good efficiency. VSWR as low as 1.11 on the upper end of the band. This should be a real talker. Next project adapting the concept to the pioneer. Got the license a few days ago so hopefully all the family cars will be equipped soon.

 

[HondaRed16]

My GMRS ground plane mount project for another UTV is showing some really good efficiency. VSWR as low as 1.11 on the upper end of the band. This should be a real talker. Next project adapting the concept to the pioneer. Got the license a few days ago so hopefully all the family cars will be equipped soon.

View attachment 241765

Nice!

So I have to ask (since I’m setting up my own) on your dual band rig what antenna and more specifically what grade coax and size diameter you using (since your obviously a professional and not using over the counter products) and length increments?

 

[thashane]

Nice!

So I have to ask (since I’m setting up my own) on your dual band rig what antenna and more specifically what grade coax and size diameter you using (since your obviously a professional and not using over the counter products) and length increments?

Obviously an amatuer you mean? I guess rg8x, or lr400

73