Help with 2009 MUV-700

[thack82]

I need help big time, has anyone ever swapped the Honda Big Red MUV-700 PGM-fi Unit out for the Honda TRX-680 Rincon PGM-FI Unit "ECM" successfully to achieve more MPH on top end?

I ordered the Magnum Pro-Revolution CDI Box w/Rev/Speed Limiter Delete ($150) and took it to a Electronics Expert to have it installed and the Magnom CDI Box destroyed Stock ECU/PGM-FI Unit. So I did a lot of research and found out the MUV-700 and the TRX-680 use almost all the same engine/transmission components and the Rincon ECU allows the motor to turn a extra 2,500 RMP. So I gambled and bought a new 2009 TRX-680 PGM-FI Unit ($544.95) thinking It would solve the 38mph speed/rev limiter problem.

It all plugged right up and they two PGM-FI Units look exactly the same but the egine wont start. It just cranks over. I've seen a lot of talk about trying to swap these two ECU's for more top speed on the MUV-700 all over the internet, has anybody figured out if and what needs to be done to make this work? Any help what so ever would be greatly appreciated.

Thack82

 

[Admin]

 

[farmer700]

Did you say... Magnum Pro-Revolution? NO.. no.. NO... stay away. Well I guess u know that now.

Swapping the PGM would seem like it could work.
No. I haven't tried it. But would for my Pioneer if you figure this out.
I will keep watch on this post..

 

[Hondasxs]

Though I do wished the Magnum would worked out. I have yet to see one in action. Only tall tall tails. Mostly by magnum pi himself.

Now to your problem.
does the display read right. Or the lights for what ever gear you are in?
Ex. If in R does the R light come on? What about D? And N?
I ask because I can re-create your issue by unplugging the gear position switch on the rincon or Pioneer.

Did you have spark? Im going to guess no.

You need to find the wire diagram for both units and compare the plugs. I bet they want match. But what happens if you move them around to match up?????¿¿¿¿

Hold on now.. You better find a way to mark them b4 U start doing that so U know where they go factory.

You could be on to something here!
Let us know.

 

[binfordw]

2500 rpm difference? wow, that seems like a lot. I wonder what rpm the Pioneer redlines at compared to a Rincon?

 

[kyhunter]

I think quite a few have tried this and it didn't work..

 

[thack82]

Though I do wished the Magnum would worked out. I have yet to see one in action. Only tall tall tails. Mostly by magnum pi himself.

Now to your problem.
does the display read right. Or the lights for what ever gear you are in?
Ex. If in R does the R light come on? What about D? And N?
I ask because I can re-create your issue by unplugging the gear position switch on the rincon or Pioneer.

Did you have spark? Im going to guess no.

You need to find the wire diagram for both units and compare the plugs. I bet they want match. But what happens if you move them around to match up?????¿¿¿¿

Hold on now.. You better find a way to mark them b4 U start doing that so U know where they go factory.

You could be on to something here!
Let us know.

It's not getting fire or fuel when you crank the ignition.

I've bought the digital service manuals for both vehicles in a attempt to do just what you said and switch the wiring around in the connections and make this work. The problem I've run into now is the Digital Rincon 680 Wiring Schematic has honorable resolution and you can't make out whats what on schematic. I've bought two off eBay one was a disc for $11 and a Adobe Version by email for $5, and I down loaded the free schematic off the Honda ATV Forum. All were the same.

I'm unsure on the lights or indicators for R, N and D but I'll check that out this afternoon. Theres no reason why this shouldn't work if you get both schematics and swap the wiring around in the connections to match the Rincon 680 PGM-FI Unit. I've researched the s*** out of both vehicles and the drive train is dead on except the ring gear and pinion is geared 2 teeth higher in the TRX-680.

I know the PGM-FI unit for the TRX-680 will allow the engine to turn 2,500 RPM's more than the big red because I'm running the Dynatek FI Controller for the MUV-700 with the TRX-680 Fuel Maps and when I pull the Maps up on my lap top using the Dynatek Curvmaker Software it shows a additional 2,500 RPM of fuel past the MUV-700's Red Line or RPM Limiter or whatever.

If I can get this figured out it will be a game changer for the die hard Honda fanatics that want there MUV-700 to perform like a Semi-Sport UTV like the new John Deere Gator RSX800i and the Kawasaki Teryx thats both a Sport and Utility UTV. The RSX800i and the Teryx will both run between 48-53mph stock and even though the MUV-700 is a single cylinder and the other two are twin cylinder the MUV-700 motor does have the aftermarket upgrades available to make the engine a real performer do to the Rincon 680 and even some of the 700XX performance parts available. All I've got to do is figure out this Harness and PGM-FI Unit issue.

I hate to buy a hard copy of the TRX-680 Service Manual because their $50 used, but that might be what I have to do. I've got one of the local Honda Dealers to fax me a copy of the TRX-680 Schematic and I might be able to make it out with a magnifying glass then mark the schematic using colored pencils.

I've never encountered a issue that was this hard for me to find a solution too. What somebody (Company) needs to do is figure this out and make a plug in PGM-FI Pig Tail that plugs into the MUV-700 Harness that allows you to use the TRX-680 PGM-FI Unit. I built my Daughter a BAD $850 4-Stroke Chinese Quad that has the 125cc Loncin E22 Honda CRF-50 Cloned Engine. I built it from the ground up and I bought a TBolts Chinese to Honda CDI Wire Harness Pigtail and it runs a TRX-400EX Dynatek-FS 4 Curve Programmable Digital CDI Box and a TRX-450 Dynatek Coil Kit. I just used the Dynatek Curvmaker Software to make the adjustments and changes that were needed and bought a $15 Harness Pig Tail that moved the connections.

This would eliminate the need to permanently modify anything and it would only take a few minutes to install. I'd say it would be a big seller if the TRX-680 PGM-FI Unit wasn't $544.95. Anyway Please continue to think about what might be causing the issue in the connector. I really appreciate all the input and help.

 

[thack82]

http://tboltusa.com/store/tb-wiring-har ... p-258.html

It would be great if we could figure this out and make a MUV-700-TRX-680 Conversion Pig Tail like the one in the link above that I bought for my Daughter's Quad. Just out of curiosity how fast will the new Honda Pioneer's run?

If ANYBODY has a clear TRX-700 Wiring Schematic PLEASE let me know.

 

[Hondasxs]

I here you.
I have been hunting a readable wire diagram for the 680 RINCON. Only the same unreadable one you have. I would like a good high rez scan like I have for the Pioneer.

One idea we are working on is figuring out the gear changing. Want to be able to control it manually on the Pioneer but we need that diagram.

Pioneer tops out at 45 mph.

 

[Hondasxs]

Pioneer wire diagram. viewtopic.php?t=841

 

[thack82]

Pioneer wire diagram. viewtopic.php?t=841

I hate to buy the $50+ Dollar Hard Copy of the Rincon 680 Service Manual, you wont even be able to blow it up, but that might be what it comes too. NOBODY'S figured this out yet? It's got to be doable. The PGM-FI Unit doesn't know if its on a MUV-700 or a TRX-680 and as I stated before the drive train on both vehicles are the same other than 3rd gear (TRX-680 is Geared 2 Teeth Higher), we've just got to get the harness pins reconfigured in the PGM-FI connectors correctly so the TRX-680 will power up and send the signals out through the MUV-700 harness!.

PLEASE help me out with this and I'll continue to update this thread with detailed instructions on what needs to be done to make this work, and I'll do everything I can possibly do to help the Pioneer Owner's do this mod as well.

The MUV-700 with a free flowing exhaust, Performance Air Filter, +3mm to +5mm bored throttle body, and a Dynatek FI Controller with the Rincon 680 PGM-FI Unit should run somewhere between 48mph and 55mph according to my calculations and even faster with more performance mods (715cc Big Bore Kit, 11.5:1 High Compression Piston, Stroker Crank, Aggressive CNC Port Work, Oversize Valves, Webcam w/ HD Valve Spring Kit, Free Flowing Intake, TRX-680 Ring Gear/Pinion, ect and thats not even counting all the small upgrades that can add up) without sacrificing reliability workability, without hitting a Rev Limiter! The TRX-680 is capable of running 65mph in stock form and I know the MUV-700 weighs double what the the TRX-680 weighs and it takes 7hp to make up 100lbs on a single cylinder four stroke engine but theres a lot of extra horsepower and speed left on the table that you squeeze out of that engine.

 

[Hondasxs]

the key has got to be whit in this diagram


Compared to the Big Red's.


The Rincon has... A bank angle sensor, which will need to be shorted out. and the shift mode sensor, which will need to be solved or installed and set to AUTO.
Also the foot stops switch will need to be shorted out.
All of those will stop it from firing.

 

[jdspeed99z]

Any new progress on the pinouts on the two ECU's? I know this would be huge for all the BR/pioneer owners... Thanks!

 

[jdspeed99z]

I've done some research, I've compared the harnesses and they're very different. If I can get my friend on board, he owns the 2013 Big red, (I have a polaris) I was going to see if he wanted to swap out his entire harness for the Rincon 680 harness, add the dash and hand controls to see if it worked. Then I did some more digging, and it also looks like the rectifier, alternator and throttle body are also different, maybe even the flywheel, so there are a lot more differences than there are similarities. You're looking at about $2k for OEM parts, or about $1000/$1200 in ebay parts. If it was mine I would have already tried it. I would love to have the manual shifting and ESP options, as well as the dash cluster, and of course the raised rpm limit.