Talon Honda Talon pricing Game 2.0

[Smitty335]

We'll see

There's no way either of these will be under $18k. The reason your able to get a RZR for that cheap is market saturation. Polaris flooded the market with too many units and models, in a market that they were once the only game in town.

If Honda dropped either of these under S18k msrp than pretty much everyone else could just go home if it's Honda reliable. No one in their right mind would buy a RZR with a Talon under $18k.

I know its going to sound nuts, but we'll be lucky if both of these don't break $20k.

We'll see? At first I thought the Talon would make the P7 & P1 worthless but after thinking about getting one and thinking about what and how I use my P1-5. A Talon at this point can't pull a splinter, haul a chain saw and gas/bar oil, haul camp wood and go trail riding. Much less haul five people. And have a dump bed for yard work? Is Honda doing something smart and waiting to bring the T-4 on the P1-5 platform with dump, later, to keep values up on the P's? Right now I would love to have a Talon, but would have to keep the P1-5. So why not get a X brand RS1 for
$ 1400.00 and go raise cain by your self?

 

[CumminsPusher]

We'll see

We'll see? At first I thought the Talon would make the P7 & P1 worthless but after thinking about getting one and thinking about what and how I use my P1-5. A Talon at this point can't pull a splinter, haul a chain saw and gas/bar oil, haul camp wood and go trail riding. Much less haul five people. And have a dump bed for yard work? Is Honda doing something smart and waiting to bring the T-4 on the P1-5 platform with dump, later, to keep values up on the P's? Right now I would love to have a Talon, but would have to keep the P1-5. So why not get a X brand RS1 for
$ 1400.00 and go raise cain by your self?

After thinking about it some I actually believe the Talon could be used for slight work. If gearing is same as pioneer (sounds like it will be) it should do as good as a Pioneer with larger tires. Add a hitch and call it a day.

 

[Vondy]

Someones got to have some inside info on pricing. Is there a Dealer Redline scheduled in January that it will be announced? Anyone know the date of the next redline?

 

[Choogsbro]

Friend of mine owns a dealership. He says pricing January and product in April. At least that's all he is telling me. He believes pricing between 20k-25k. I know this is no new news but that's what he has told me.

 

[CTDpower]

There's no way either of these will be under $18k. The reason your able to get a RZR for that cheap is market saturation. Polaris flooded the market with too many units and models, in a market that they were once the only game in town.

If Honda dropped either of these under S18k msrp than pretty much everyone else could just go home if it's Honda reliable. No one in their right mind would buy a RZR with a Talon under $18k.

I know its going to sound nuts, but we'll be lucky if both of these don't break $20k.

I don't claim to know anything about economics, but here's my two cents.

I don't see market saturation being brand specific. For example, I think the market is saturated with sport side x sides, not rzr's specifically. No doubt most of these sport sxs's are rzr's (which, good for them for gettin theirs while the gettin was good), but I dont think that makes much difference.

If a company wants to continue to show growth in a saturated market then they need to make their products better, cheaper, or both. So if Honda wants to enter this saturated market of sport side x sides, and take any meaningful market share, then I think they either need to show some new innovation or tech, have varieties of models that reach new buyer markets that havent been catered too yet, and/or be cheaper than the competitions comparable product.

I think you hit it on the head when you said "No one in their right mind would buy a RZR with a Talon under $18k." If a Talon X ends up being 20k or more will they sell any? Yes. There will always be a few Honda fanboys and the uneducated buyers that can be sold. Would they sell more if they were under 18k, or priced the same as a comparable rzr? Definitely. At the same price as a rzr (or less), Honda might actually make a dent in Polaris sales.

As for the "talon is a better product than a rzr" argument, well, is it really? I would be willing to bet that it will be, but to the uneducated buyer, new to the market buyer, or Polaris fans, my guess is they will still side with the rzr. On paper the talon x doesn't really beat a rzr 1000. Sure the salesmen can push the all gear trans, but I assure you the Polaris salesmen have just as many ways to articulate why the cvt/belt is better. I'm just saying, how much of the market did the Yamaha take when it came out... and it has a gear tranny.

I think if Honda wants to impact the other brands that are leading the way, then they need to do something extrordinary, and right now the specs on paper aren't anything special.

 

[sek-hunter]

With all the talk about ‘putting a dent in RZR sales’ and such, a question came to mind. I wonder how much the Pioneer hurt the sales of other utility SxS’s such as the Ranger? Has anyone ever seen or heard any numbers or percentages of Ranger (or other brands) sales decline since the introduction of the Pioneer (be it 700 or 1000)?

Just curious...

I believe that with most folks, brand loyalty is rooted pretty deep whether it’s a SxS, Truck, tractor, chainsaw, cold beer, or whatever....

I’d say that it would take a pretty special machine that was priced very competitively with a RZR 1000 (non turbo) to get most RZR fans to jump ship.

Unfortunately, I don’t see the Talon X or R being priced under the MSRP of that machine.

Hope I am wrong!

Cheers


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[CTDpower]

We'll see

We'll see? At first I thought the Talon would make the P7 & P1 worthless but after thinking about getting one and thinking about what and how I use my P1-5. A Talon at this point can't pull a splinter, haul a chain saw and gas/bar oil, haul camp wood and go trail riding. Much less haul five people. And have a dump bed for yard work? Is Honda doing something smart and waiting to bring the T-4 on the P1-5 platform with dump, later, to keep values up on the P's? Right now I would love to have a Talon, but would have to keep the P1-5. So why not get a X brand RS1 for
$ 1400.00 and go raise cain by your self?

I think I agree. When comparing the talon X to my pioneer, I'm not real sure how much more capable it will be on the trail. It has more travel and what appear to be more comfortable seats, but it has a bigger turning radius. Add in the other things that make my pioneer multipurpose, such as the bigger bed, a hitch, more seats, etc and I'm not sure I'll be convinced to buy an X. Especially if it is priced high.

 

[CTDpower]

I agree with ya on the brand loyalty being rooted deep. Unfortunately I think the Honda diehards waited so long for Honda to come out with a sxs, and they got the big red, wah wah wah, LOL. So they kept waiting and finally got the 700 (which used the ever so widely popular Rincon drive and powertrain, sarcastic of course). Meanwhile almost every other brand, even brands that didn't exist before such as Intimidator, were making superior machines. I think Honda lost a few loyals during this time period, and they may never get them back.

 

[Smitty335]

After thinking about it some I actually believe the Talon could be used for slight work. If gearing is same as pioneer (sounds like it will be) it should do as good as a Pioneer with larger tires. Add a hitch and call it a day.

Like this?

I think I agree. When comparing the talon X to my pioneer, I'm not real sure how much more capable it will be on the trail. It has more travel and what appear to be more comfortable seats, but it has a bigger turning radius. Add in the other things that make my pioneer multipurpose, such as the bigger bed, a hitch, more seats, etc and I'm not sure I'll be convinced to buy an X. Especially if it is priced high.

I'll be interested, just not first year, but the P1-5 has a home!

 

[Smitty335]

I don't claim to know anything about economics, but here's my two cents.

I don't see market saturation being brand specific. For example, I think the market is saturated with sport side x sides, not rzr's specifically. No doubt most of these sport sxs's are rzr's (which, good for them for gettin theirs while the gettin was good), but I dont think that makes much difference.

If a company wants to continue to show growth in a saturated market then they need to make their products better, cheaper, or both. So if Honda wants to enter this saturated market of sport side x sides, and take any meaningful market share, then I think they either need to show some new innovation or tech, have varieties of models that reach new buyer markets that havent been catered too yet, and/or be cheaper than the competitions comparable product.

I think you hit it on the head when you said "No one in their right mind would buy a RZR with a Talon under $18k." If a Talon X ends up being 20k or more will they sell any? Yes. There will always be a few Honda fanboys and the uneducated buyers that can be sold. Would they sell more if they were under 18k, or priced the same as a comparable rzr? Definitely. At the same price as a rzr (or less), Honda might actually make a dent in Polaris sales.

As for the "talon is a better product than a rzr" argument, well, is it really? I would be willing to bet that it will be, but to the uneducated buyer, new to the market buyer, or Polaris fans, my guess is they will still side with the rzr. On paper the talon x doesn't really beat a rzr 1000. Sure the salesmen can push the all gear trans, but I assure you the Polaris salesmen have just as many ways to articulate why the cvt/belt is better. I'm just saying, how much of the market did the Yamaha take when it came out... and it has a gear tranny.

I think if Honda wants to impact the other brands that are leading the way, then they need to do something extrordinary, and right now the specs on paper aren't anything special.

OW my, I agree!

 

[CumminsPusher]

View attachment 98108
Like this?View attachment 98108

I'll be interested, just not first year, but the P1-5 has a home!

No Smitty it cannot do this...

But it would haul back enough wood for a regular campfire lol. Also skid logs back to camp and such. What I am saying is as far as a workhorse underneath it’s still there. My wife and I get by very easily with the Wolverine box and it’s not huge. I’m guessing the Talon is at least half and it would have easy ability to pull a trailer. Things that honestly I would use it for but not most other sport rigs. I would use it more then just ride from camp. I can promise Ang and I could easily take it for a weekend, and especially at a resort like a lot of people camp exclusively at.

 

[Smitty335]

No Smitty it cannot do this...
View attachment 98206
But it would haul back enough wood for a regular campfire lol. Also skid logs back to camp and such. What I am saying is as far as a workhorse underneath it’s still there. My wife and I get by very easily with the Wolverine box and it’s not huge. I’m guessing the Talon is at least half and it would have easy ability to pull a trailer. Things that honestly I would use it for but not most other sport rigs. I would use it more then just ride from camp. I can promise Ang and I could easily take it for a weekend, and especially at a resort like a lot of people camp exclusively at.

Pinky up, next thing you'll be drinking wine only. HA!

 

[CumminsPusher]

Pinky up, next thing you'll be drinking wine only. HA!

Drinking wine? How dare you I’m a man. lol

 

[Smitty335]

Drinking wine? How dare you I’m a man. lol

I thought that would get a rise, HA!

 

[Smitty335]

Drinking wine? How dare you I’m a man. lol

You fish?

 

[sek-hunter]

Pinky up, next thing you'll be drinking wine only. HA!

Ain’t no sissy wine sipper drivin’ that log truck!!! That’s a cool pic for sure...


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[Cuoutdoors]

Honda has never been a company that gets aggressive about taking market share and that won't be starting any time soon. Polaris built the first Ranger in 1999 and Honda came along at lightning speed and built the BIG RED 12 years later in 2011. It was a big flop and it took 5 more years until 2016 to produce a full size SXS to compete and released the Pioneer 1000. Artic cat released their first Prowler in 2006 and Polaris released the first RZR in 2007. Again Honda is working at the pace of geriatric sea turtles and has decided to join in the fun. They are once again 12 years late to the party with the Talon.

I don't know how many of you are interested in business economics but Honda makes their decisions based on money and not based on weather or not some redneck in the middle of America wants better shocks, better 4 wheel drive, better seats, more suspension travel, blah blah blah they don't give a damn what you all want and here is why.

In the power sports industry Honda sells about 700,000 units TOTAL in the United States. In Asia they sell nearly 18 MILLION! Further, take a look at the graph.

Out of Honda's total portfolio their Power sports business AKA Motorcycle business makes up just 12.3% Out of that 12.3% North American motorcycle sales are just a sliver making up 1.164% of the total sales revenue for Honda. Now the "power product and other" category is their lawn mowers, generators, and that kind of stuff.

So there you have it. We are 1.164% of the shyt Honda cares about. If you are a person makes 50,000 dollars in a year, 1.164% equates to $820. How much time are you going to devote to worrying about the crowd paying you $820 of your annual salary? You're going to take your sweet ass time addressing what they want and string them along. Money is money so you keep them around so long as it doesn't become too big of a hassle to the rest of your life.


You guys can all yell about all the things you think Honda should be doing in regards to prices in our little power sports world but its not going to change. They sell more scooters in one week in Asia than total number of SXS's sold in the USA in an entire year.

 

[jwfirebird]

know alot of people that buy polaris they are the type that buy based on price over anything else in everything, trucks whatever, most of them dont care if it breaks they just say it cost half of what your machine cost, and probably right. honda makes things for people who want to buy something that will last and dont care if they have to pay more. popo rushes things and quality suffers but there are probably 4 out of 5 people in the country that would rather have new and cheaper vs the 1 that would rather have one that wont break

 

[CTDpower]

Cuoutdoors, that's kind of how I figured their company make up would look. I don't expect them to do everything I was talking about, I was more or less just saying that's what they would need to do if they wanted to get ahead of the game in the side-by-side Market. But like you pointed out, that isn't where the money is for them. And I certainly don't blame them for chasing the money and growing their company. I guess the real question now would be, should we continue to be brand loyal and faithful to a company who only devotes 1% of their resources to the product we are considering purchasing?

 

[CTDpower]

know alot of people that buy polaris they are the type that buy based on price over anything else in everything, trucks whatever, most of them dont care if it breaks they just say it cost half of what your machine cost, and probably right. honda makes things for people who want to buy something that will last and dont care if they have to pay more. popo rushes things and quality suffers but there are probably 4 out of 5 people in the country that would rather have new and cheaper vs the 1 that would rather have one that wont break

I agree with you 100%, but just to play Devil's Advocate here it goes LOL.

The type of people you were describing as Polaris buyers are the new generation now. They do it in every aspect of life practically. It's the same reason no one buys Amish furniture anymore. They see a table for $4,000 at an Amish store that appears to be outdated, or they can buy a trendy dining room set from a box store for $400.

And part of me can't hardly blame them. They can buy dining room set for $400, sell it for $200 in a year, then by the newest trending dining room set again for $400, and continue to do this for 20 years before they would have paid off a noun twenty-year-old Amish dining room set.

The side by sides are so full of Technology and are advancing so quickly that after five years it's a dinosaur anyway. Much like computers and phones. They can buy a Polaris for cheap, get it to Last 5 Years, then sell it for half or a little more than what they paid. And they can take all of that money and put it down on the next Polaris they buy and have the most up-to-date current technology highest-performing machine out there.