P500 How loud is your Valve train?

[DG Rider]

I know they are noisy engines...and...I've noticed a bit of noise from the top end from the start of ownership of the 500. Lately, It may have gotten slightly worse, so i did the valves last week during routine service.
So now I'm starting to concentrate on this noise...whereas i wasn't before, so its hard to say if it's really getting worse...or if i am getting worse.

Did the adjustment. Seemed no better. Got worked up to the point that saturday night, i did them in emergency surgery again by moonlight(shop light) just to ease my mind before riding, and they were spot on. You could use the +/- .1 mm aspect and go slightly tighter, i suppose, and maybe i will now that I'VE PULLED THE CYLINDER HEAD COVER OFF TO INSPECT. That's right.
When i fired it up today to unload and put in the shed, it seemed awfully loud...to the point where i said OK...had enough mystery...going to see what's going on.

So here's what's happening:
On cold starts, it taps fairly loud ( Most engines do make more noise cold...and the valvetrain IS splash fed on these). After maybe 30 seconds to a minute, it starts to quiet...but here's the thing; it will, at times, almost come in and out, kinda like a gunky hydro lifter. Once warm, its what i would consider loud-normal, like it always seems to have been, but if it stays at idle, you do get that in-and-out jingle tap at times. Stethoscope listening tells me the noise is loudest right over the intake rocker shaft.

Inspecting the rocker arms, they have NO play on the shaft, so there doesn't seem to be any wear there, and the pushrod tip/ball socket looks perfect. I really expected to find worn rockers, but they just aint. I may further disassemble this'll to be sure about the shafts.

Oil comes out of the cylinder galley after about 3 cranks at a decent rate (though it doesn't shoot by any means). The passages in the cover are clear. When running with the rear tappet nut cover off, oil readily splashes out.
FSM doesn't show a place to test oil pressure, but the looks of the top end say its OK.

I am familiar with the decompressor noise that some make, but as i said, this clearly originates from the intake side.

Again: Above idle, there is nothing but normal noise.

Sounds like this cold (not my video):

...and maybe a tiny bit, but much quieter when warm at idle. The guy in the video had the cam, oil pump, and other stuff replaced under warranty, to no avail.

My theory: The intake side is the last to get splash oil, and it just operates with barely enough at idle to stay good on my not-so-new- engine?

Anyone have the same noise?
TIA!

 

[DG Rider]

@HondaTech you probably hear a lot of these?

 

[HondaTech]

That sort of sounds like a cam chain rattle, not consistent enough to be a valve loose I wouldn't think. Usually a loosely adjusted valve would be a consistent ticking.

I wonder if you could have a worn bucket causing the noise to travel up the pushrod into the rockers.

Try muffling the exhaust with your knee to get a better listen to the sound.

 

[DG Rider]

That sort of sounds like a cam chain rattle, not consistent enough to be a valve loose I wouldn't think. Usually a loosely adjusted valve would be a consistent ticking.

I wonder if you could have a worn bucket causing the noise to travel up the pushrod into the rockers.

Try muffling the exhaust with your knee to get a better listen to the sound.

It does kinda sound like that, but anytime i move away from the intake rocker, it gets quieter. Including the exhaust side, front cover, etc. I also used the muffler cover as well. And the guy in the video above replace all that, though that certainly doesn't mean mine isn't a cam chain

I did end up pulling those rocker shafts out, and they look nearly perfect.

It doesn't look like the buckets will clear the cylinder, but I'll bring my magnet home from the shop tomorrow and see. If anything, I'll flip them over in the engine.
I've buttoned it up for the night; I lost the 2 dowels in the cover somehow. The good news is i just ordered some, so I'll find them any minute.

Everything up top looks like new, and I'm not going any further unless it gets way worse. I'll put it back together and go absolute minimum on the intake, and f*** the rest of it.

 

[Chooglin]

So here's what's happening:
On cold starts, it taps fairly loud ( Most engines do make more noise cold...and the valvetrain IS splash fed on these). After maybe 30 seconds to a minute, it starts to quiet...but here's the thing; it will, at times, almost come in and out, kinda like a gunky hydro lifter. Once warm, its what i would consider loud-normal, like it always seems to have been, but if it stays at idle, you do get that in-and-out jingle tap at times.

Anyone have the same noise?
TIA!

This is exactly what mine has done since new. I have adjusted my valves twice now. My intake valve was loose and it did improve the "ticking" but not 100% , it's still there ! It's to the point now , I just don't worry about it anymore, it runs and starts up fine , so I am just going to drive it !..........it must just be the nature of this engine.

 

[ehart814]

Have to agree with chooglin. Mine is very tappy, but it’s. A more consistent noise, probably a loose valve. It’s always been noisy so I just try to ignore it.


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[Rustneversleeps]

And i thought you were talking about a pioneer 500,foreman is a different ball game.....

 

[Chooglin]

And i thought you were talking about a pioneer 500,foreman is a different ball game.....

But it's the same engine!

 

[DG Rider]

This is exactly what mine has done since new. I have adjusted my valves twice now. My intake valve was loose and it did improve the "ticking" but not 100% , it's still there ! It's to the point now , I just don't worry about it anymore, it runs and starts up fine , so I am just going to drive it !..........it must just be the nature of this engine.

Have to agree with chooglin. Mine is very tappy, but it’s. A more consistent noise, probably a loose valve. It’s always been noisy so I just try to ignore it.


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Thanks guys. It's probably always done it...but sometimes I talk myself into worrying about stuff. It's going back together and I am going to drive it. As soon as those dowel pins show up I ordered...

And i thought you were talking about a pioneer 500,foreman is a different ball game.....

Bo Jackson? Deion Sanders? Brian Jordan? Kyler Murray?
Different ballgame, same player.
In fact, while looking for videos and such about topend noises on Foreman 500, I learned that the 500 engine is basically the same as the 420 rancher engine, or vice versa.

 

[DG Rider]

I wonder if you could have a worn bucket causing the noise to travel up the pushrod into the rockers.

Tried to pull the buckets with a telescoping magnet today. The base gasket on the cylinder cuts inside the corner, and won't allow the Bucket completely out of its bore, so no inspection there.

 

[100Acre]

Bo Jackson? Deion Sanders? Brian Jordan? Kyler Murray?
Different ballgame, same player.
At least you didn’t say Bruce Jenner...

 

[DG Rider]

Bo Jackson? Deion Sanders? Brian Jordan? Kyler Murray?
Different ballgame, same player.
At least you didn’t say Bruce Jenner...

Bahawhwha!

 

[DG Rider]

A little update: Cleaned and reassembled the valve cover with new o-rings on the rocker shafts and new gaskets. Everything looked great. Back together and very quiet...almost too quiet, but it was a cool night. The real proof is in the heat of the day in the midst of a 50 mile ride. Which i did yesterday.

FYI...i did NOT go tight on the valves as i threatened to earlier, but it is quieter than before. Either there was some crud partially blocking the oil feed galley to the intake...or i just got the valves a little tighter, but whatever happened, it's not as loud as it was. Yes, it still taps on cold start, but not to the degree that it was.
Maybe it just wanted attention...Whatever. I'm not touching it again for 1200 miles unless a pushrod goes through the cover.

Still gotta do the rear joint boot...and NOW, front brake pads. And probably going to change the oil filter again, since this engine has been open 2 times on this fresh oil

And i never did find those dowels...

 

[DG Rider]

An update here: didn't take long until the machine was pretty much back where it started; loud valve tapping just after start up that comes and goes until it reaches full temp, at which point it's pretty quiet. Just the little jingle noise like in the video.

Why the machine seems to get quiet after I check the valves (even if I don't touch them) is a mystery, but it's done that 2 times now. It could have been simply because ambient temps were much cooler during those starts. Guess I'll find out this fall.

Also @SouthwestORV , I just watched your rancher valve adjustment video, and on camera at least, mine sounds quieter. The 420 and 500 Foreman/pioneer engines are closely related. Just wondering what you've observed with your rancher, and now Pioneer?

 

[Mudder]

So glad to have such knowledgeable members on this forum.

 

[SouthwestORV]

An update here: didn't take long until the machine was pretty much back where it started; loud valve tapping just after start up that comes and goes until it reaches full temp, at which point it's pretty quiet. Just the little jingle noise like in the video.

Why the machine seems to get quiet after I check the valves (even if I don't touch them) is a mystery, but it's done that 2 times now. It could have been simply because ambient temps were much cooler during those starts. Guess I'll find out this fall.

Also @SouthwestORV , I just watched your rancher valve adjustment video, and on camera at least, mine sounds quieter. The 420 and 500 Foreman/pioneer engines are closely related. Just wondering what you've observed with your rancher, and now Pioneer?

On my Rancher the valves got noisier after being adjusted. I even had them adjusted at two separate shops. They were noisy enough it sounded to me like something wrong, but I eventually decided to just keep riding and ignore the noise. It’s still running strong today with over 4000 miles in the hands of another owner. I have noticed something similar between the two engines, Rancher 420 and Pioneer 500, which are nearly identical - after about 200 miles they both got noisy. When new, both engines sounded happy even in the higher rpms. However, both engines exhibit the exact same violent valvetrain noise at med/high rpms. Exact same sound. In the Pioneer 500 the noise I’m referring to starts up at 30mph. In the Rancher it started at 40mph, but same approximate rpm in both machines. In the P500 I just try to ignore it and hope it’ll be fine.

 

[SouthwestORV]

An update here: didn't take long until the machine was pretty much back where it started; loud valve tapping just after start up that comes and goes until it reaches full temp, at which point it's pretty quiet. Just the little jingle noise like in the video.

Why the machine seems to get quiet after I check the valves (even if I don't touch them) is a mystery, but it's done that 2 times now. It could have been simply because ambient temps were much cooler during those starts. Guess I'll find out this fall.

Also @SouthwestORV , I just watched your rancher valve adjustment video, and on camera at least, mine sounds quieter. The 420 and 500 Foreman/pioneer engines are closely related. Just wondering what you've observed with your rancher, and now Pioneer?

This is the main reason I want a @trigger shield. I can hear all the valve noise so it worries/bothers me. I’m hoping if I can’t hear it, the machine will go just as far and the valve noise will be out of sight/mind.

 

[DG Rider]

This is the main reason I want a @trigger shield. I can hear all the valve noise so it worries/bothers me. I’m hoping if I can’t hear it, the machine will go just as far and the valve noise will be out of sight/mind.

The main thing that concerns me at this point is the tapping during warm up. About 30 seconds after a cold start, it taps pretty loud...like a valve way out. It lasts for maybe 5-10 seconds, then goes away. It will do 1-4 cycles of this. Once at operating temp, it's actually pretty quiet.

I have been running my own homemade trigger shield for a while. Thing is, I'm usually loading up when it's warming up, so I'm outside the machine.

 

[SouthwestORV]

The main thing that concerns me at this point is the tapping during warm up. About 30 seconds after a cold start, it taps pretty loud...like a valve way out. It lasts for maybe 5-10 seconds, then goes away. It will do 1-4 cycles of this. Once at operating temp, it's actually pretty quiet.

I have been running my own homemade trigger shield for a while. Thing is, I'm usually loading up when it's warming up, so I'm outside the machine.

Mine does the same thing. I’ve noticed it. During warm up it’ll cycle through valve tapping. I just ignore it now.

 

[DG Rider]

Mine does the same thing. I’ve noticed it. During warm up it’ll cycle through valve tapping. I just ignore it now.

Good to know. Guess it's just the nature of this engine.
Did your rancher do it?