Interesting question from my wife

Crow_Hunter

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While my wife and I were traveling yesterday we passed several people on SXS's doing various things. Each time my wife would ask "What is that one?", if she couldn't tell. Everything we saw was Polaris. While we were at Bob's House of Honda (also a Polaris dealer) we asked the salesman what he owned, and he said Polaris. The vast majority of what he had in the showroom was Polaris. While we were there, my wife asked what about the Polaris Ranger and I said that Polaris wasn't on the table because I think they are problematic and she said okay.

On the way home, after we saw maybe the 5th or 6th Polaris, my wife asked me a question that I really couldn't answer.

"If Polaris is so bad, why do so many people buy and own them?"

Since I couldn't give a satisfactory answer, I thought maybe I would ask here.

So why do you think that apparent paradox exists?
 
sporttrac4x4

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The Polaris have been out longer than the Pioneer and there is a lot more available to purchase . The Pioneer has increased in my area quite a bit even though there still is a lot of Polaris.
 
sharp

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So many people have them because Honda waited before they put out the p1k. Several people like myself had a ranger and traded it in because Honda finally came out with a 1000. The tide is starting to turn on Polaris plus they are starting to be a little played out.
 
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Polaris makes a very capable side by side...if you want a rock bouncer or high performance machine with high maintenance then buy polaris...if you want a do it all machine that isn't the fastest or the longest suspension with low maintenance buy a honda. I am as non-brand loyal as I could be and if I wanted to play in the hardcore rocks I would have a rzr 1000... I wanted a 5 seater that didn't require weekly wrenching so I own a honda...period.

Anyone that says their pioneer 1000 is as capable as a rzr 1000 is full of crap...sorry...
 
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Plumber32

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Polaris makes a very capable side by side...if you want a rock bouncer or high performance machine with high maintenance then buy polaris...if you want a do it all machine that isn't the fastest or the longest suspension with low maintenance buy a honda. I am as non-brand loyal as I could be and if I wanted to play in the hardcore rocks I would have a rzr 1000... I wanted a 5 seater that didn't require weekly wrenching so I own a honda...period.

Anyone that says their pioneer 1000 is as capable as a rzr 1000 is full of crap...sorry...
What's the definition of "capable "? Going 100mph, or going 10,000 miles. The machines are different classes.
 
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CumminsPusher

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The dealers always push Polaris. It's in thier best interest they get more kickback sell more parts sell more service and and get to sell another one because yours is worn out at 3-4K its win win win
Since there are more popos everyone assumes they are better
 
Crow_Hunter

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The dealers always push Polaris. It's in thier best interest they get more kickback sell more parts sell more service and and get to sell another one because yours is worn out at 3-4K its win win win
Since there are more popos everyone assumes they are better

Sort of like a self licking ice cream cone.
 
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Eltobgi

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My 2cents is they continue to drive what they do because to them Polaris has always been a contender! But since Hondas P1K has entered the market only recently they don't know why they are missing! Or their brand loyalty and wrench time and continued investment overtime represents a value to them they are not ready to part with! For the record when I say "they", I include myself. But everyone has a breaking point, and when that point is reached "they" will look for an alternative, and speaking from experience... Honda's P1K will end their search! ;)
 
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Tflynn

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I attribute polaris's popularity to the fact that they owned the sxs market with little to no competition for so long. That combined with the fact that RZR's are fun to ride (maybe not so fun to own) made the name "razor" synonymous with sxs. Much like sawzall is to reciprocating saw and Kleenex is to bath tissue. However the rest of the manufacturers have taken notice and brought worthy and in some cases better products to the marketplace. It just takes the general public awhile to notice! For instance, when I decided I was going to buy a sxs I was planning on a RZR because I didn't even know pioneers existed! After some research I narrowed it down to a Viking (which I also wasn't aware of initially) and a pioneer. I chose the pioneer because of the transmission and Hondas legendary reliability. My point is, I first wanted a RZR because I wasn't aware of other options. After researching all that changed. I think a lot of people buy first and think later. Although I would NEVER accuse you of that @Crow_Hunter!! Haha!
 
drfubar

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Polaris is famous for their suspension. They ride great... (owned several), and the one's I owned were fast and would climb anything but I was constantly fixing things. My last fix was on my Sportsman 850, (a real brute), but it was $1200 for a little $40 piece poorly made and prone to breakage on all Polaris models, (know several riders who had the same problem). To remove and replace the piece the transmission had to be pulled out, the gears had to be pulled out and then all put back together. It's for sale and I'll never own another Polaris if anyone is interested in owning it.
 
500

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While my wife and I were traveling yesterday we passed several people on SXS's doing various things. Each time my wife would ask "What is that one?", if she couldn't tell. Everything we saw was Polaris. While we were at Bob's House of Honda (also a Polaris dealer) we asked the salesman what he owned, and he said Polaris. The vast majority of what he had in the showroom was Polaris. While we were there, my wife asked what about the Polaris Ranger and I said that Polaris wasn't on the table because I think they are problematic and she said okay.

On the way home, after we saw maybe the 5th or 6th Polaris, my wife asked me a question that I really couldn't answer.

"If Polaris is so bad, why do so many people buy and own them?"

Since I couldn't give a satisfactory answer, I thought maybe I would ask here.

So why do you think that apparent paradox exists?
Honda owns 40% of the total ATV market.
Polaris owns 60% of the total UTV market.
Those were market research numbers I received as of 2014/2015 (assuming they are accurate).
What that tells me is that once you find your niche, it's hard to be knocked off the top. Polaris Ranger, in terms of ride (smoothness and travel) and speed, was the first real "fun" mass produced SxS. Sure, there were Gators, Mules, XRTs, Cushmans, Dingo Deuce, etc. but IMO none could touch the Ranger. It was no contest with speed and ride quality.
Then came the Rhino, etc., then here we are today. Everybody is playing catch up with Polaris - always has. Even when the Rhino was dropped, Polaris already had more power and travel. Yamaha started behind. Kawasaki jumped in with the 2-seater Teryx. Behind. While everybody else was trying to get in the game, Polaris owned the game and decided a RZR (mind blown considering this was a ground breaking, non existent division in the marketplace at the time) would throw the key away on everybody else, and it did. When other mfg's are trying to figure out how to compete with the Ranger, Polaris opens up the demand to a completely new segment demanding more power, more travel, etc. and totally kills everyone else. Now, they have to compete with the Ranger and the RZR as well as a totally new mindset from their customer base - "well Polaris has 16 inches of travel and this brand only has "X". Think about it - only 10 years earlier customers thought the log wagon mule with 3" of travel and 18hp was perfect for their hunting club (all about perception). Look at Yamaha - they drop a Wolverine to compete with the Commander and somewhat the crossover Teryx, and Polaris drops the General 1000 with gobs of suspension travel, power, and features once again owning a class feature-wise. Polaris has always been about owning and dominating by concepts and lavish features. This has not translated into quality, but when you own the market, you own the market. Accessories, Johnny and Jimmy own one, features, etc. all propel them onward. Plus, when you are making 1800-2000 margins on units plus making 50% margin on acc's plus install charges, you would push Polaris too. The margins on accessorized RZRs are killer. I know a dealer that just grossed over $6K on a loaded RZR + rebate (unit sold for 25.5K + tax). How many non-accessorized Hondas would he have to move? Polaris dealers know their Popo customers are more prone to the upsell not because they are any less savvy, but because Popo has a ton of cool options and Jimmy and John did it so Joe will do it. Went to local dealer up here this weekend, and had loaded Polaris UTVs on the floor already set up, while his other lines were sitting base, maybe a roof and w/s here and there. Says all it needs to say to me. Sure, mfg's and dealers are starting to catch up to the Polaris model, but good luck catching them. Just my 2 cents. I'd rather have a Honda. Better parts, better R&D, etc.
 
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Wife and I were sitting on the front porch yesterday as a Polaris Ranger 570 drove by. She made one comment that made me smile and it was " I can't believe how loud that thing is!" That is one of the main reasons I purchased the P1K.
 
Crow_Hunter

Crow_Hunter

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Honda owns 40% of the total ATV market.
Polaris owns 60% of the total UTV market.
Those were market research numbers I received as of 2014/2015 (assuming they are accurate).
What that tells me is that once you find your niche, it's hard to be knocked off the top. Polaris Ranger, in terms of ride (smoothness and travel) and speed, was the first real "fun" mass produced SxS. Sure, there were Gators, Mules, XRTs, Cushmans, Dingo Deuce, etc. but IMO none could touch the Ranger. It was no contest with speed and ride quality.
Then came the Rhino, etc., then here we are today. Everybody is playing catch up with Polaris - always has. Even when the Rhino was dropped, Polaris already had more power and travel. Yamaha started behind. Kawasaki jumped in with the 2-seater Teryx. Behind. While everybody else was trying to get in the game, Polaris owned the game and decided a RZR (mind blown considering this was a ground breaking, non existent division in the marketplace at the time) would throw the key away on everybody else, and it did. When other mfg's are trying to figure out how to compete with the Ranger, Polaris opens up the demand to a completely new segment demanding more power, more travel, etc. and totally kills everyone else. Now, they have to compete with the Ranger and the RZR as well as a totally new mindset from their customer base - "well Polaris has 16 inches of travel and this brand only has "X". Think about it - only 10 years earlier customers thought the log wagon mule with 3" of travel and 18hp was perfect for their hunting club (all about perception). Look at Yamaha - they drop a Wolverine to compete with the Commander and somewhat the crossover Teryx, and Polaris drops the General 1000 with gobs of suspension travel, power, and features once again owning a class feature-wise. Polaris has always been about owning and dominating by concepts and lavish features. This has not translated into quality, but when you own the market, you own the market. Accessories, Johnny and Jimmy own one, features, etc. all propel them onward. Plus, when you are making 1800-2000 margins on units plus making 50% margin on acc's plus install charges, you would push Polaris too. The margins on accessorized RZRs are killer. I know a dealer that just grossed over $6K on a loaded RZR + rebate (unit sold for 25.5K + tax). How many non-accessorized Hondas would he have to move? Polaris dealers know their Popo customers are more prone to the upsell not because they are any less savvy, but because Popo has a ton of cool options and Jimmy and John did it so Joe will do it. Went to local dealer up here this weekend, and had loaded Polaris UTVs on the floor already set up, while his other lines were sitting base, maybe a roof and w/s here and there. Says all it needs to say to me. Sure, mfg's and dealers are starting to catch up to the Polaris model, but good luck catching them. Just my 2 cents. I'd rather have a Honda. Better parts, better R&D, etc.

Excellent and insightful, thank you. I will let my wife read this. I personally didn't want to get a Polaris based on my brother's experience with them. He had a 2008 Rzr and there is a reason he is on a first name basis with the owner of Abernathy's who treated him very, very well by the way considering it was out of warranty at the time.

But my wife want to know if everyone else was having the same problems, why did people keep buying them. Every time we go up to Abernathy's there is a steady stream of people leaving the lot with Polaris's on their trailers.

I think she will get a lot out of this.
 
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CumminsPusher

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Excellent and insightful, thank you. I will let my wife read this. I personally didn't want to get a Polaris based on my brother's experience with them. He had a 2008 Rzr and there is a reason he is on a first name basis with the owner of Abernathy's who treated him very, very well by the way considering it was out of warranty at the time.

But my wife want to know if everyone else was having the same problems, why did people keep buying them. Every time we go up to Abernathy's there is a steady stream of people leaving the lot with Polaris's on their trailers.

I think she will get a lot out of this.
To be totally honest with you Polaris does have an appeal to them when new. They definitely have ride and comfort figured out. They are smooth out of the gate. The jap rigs take a minute to smooth out but will never be quite as nice in that category. (Maybe administration now with the Walkers!) Polaris did a great job of advertising and sold a butt load now there are just so many out there. If you look for a used sxs there aren't many out there that aren't popo or Can-ams (think this number gets worse because not as many want to get rid of the jap machine) but as people are looking for a used machine all they see or are really available reasonable are the American made (actually Mexico/Canada) machines. That does a few things- #1 misleadingly shows people those are the only choices #2 misleadingly shows they are better and #3 they are usually for sale newer lower miles and cleaner so people think that's the way to go. Dealers seriously push the "American " made because it's money in their pocket plus it's an easier sale because people want "shiny pretty" and that's what they get.
 
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sharp

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Excellent and insightful, thank you. I will let my wife read this. I personally didn't want to get a Polaris based on my brother's experience with them. He had a 2008 Rzr and there is a reason he is on a first name basis with the owner of Abernathy's who treated him very, very well by the way considering it was out of warranty at the time.

But my wife want to know if everyone else was having the same problems, why did people keep buying them. Every time we go up to Abernathy's there is a steady stream of people leaving the lot with Polaris's on their trailers.

I think she will get a lot out of this.
Abernathys is know for pushing the polaris brand very hard.
 
CumminsPusher

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Abernathys is know for pushing the polaris brand very hard.
All dealers around here do as well. I can see why they do it.
 
walexa07

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Polaris makes a very capable side by side...if you want a rock bouncer or high performance machine with high maintenance then buy polaris...if you want a do it all machine that isn't the fastest or the longest suspension with low maintenance buy a honda. I am as non-brand loyal as I could be and if I wanted to play in the hardcore rocks I would have a rzr 1000... I wanted a 5 seater that didn't require weekly wrenching so I own a honda...period.

Anyone that says their pioneer 1000 is as capable as a rzr 1000 is full of crap...sorry...

I agree with Marine660 100%. Polaris did the same thing with the sxs that they did with IRS. Sure, suzuki had IRS on their king quad, but they never really blew the market away with it. Polaris comes along years later and pretty much forces all mfgs to produce an IRS machine just to catch up to them. Same way with the sxs - sure Kawi had the mule and there were gators and other utility machines. Polaris on the other hand wasn't afraid to make their ranger go faster than 25mph, ride good, etc. Then along came the rzr and took the market by storm. Honda HAS to be the slowest to catch onto anything. That they still have drum brakes on anything amazes me. I have a ton of respect for Polaris with what they have brought us. If it hadn't been for them, I do not believe we would have anything more than Mules, drum brakes, and solid rear axles.

A few weeks ago I went trail riding with a group of 4 rzr 800s. It was difficult to keep up with them in the terrain we were in. So again, I agree with Marine660 - anyone that says their P1K is as capable as a rzr1000 is full of crap...........

I do think the Hondas are better engineered and are generally built better to last longer, but the rzr 800 with the highest mileage we were riding with had 4500 miles. I think he said one set of wheel bearings, new u-joints on the front prop shaft, and the rear cv's had been replaced once. That's not too bad for 4500 miles IMO.

I still like and prefer my p1k5d because of its features, 5 passenger capability, short wheelbase, and tight turning radius. All the traction modes are really impressive as well. I'm kind of wondering why they didn't go with their steel CVT that they use in the automobiles, but I am happy with the DCT so far. I'm a little over 400 miles and no problems other than a rattle or two.

Waylan
 
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