P1000 lower Reverse on a Pioneer

[GPR1500SC]

I finally got around to this mod after reverse broke I found the retainer on the bottom with most of its balls ☹

Here is a complete parts list you will need if you do reverse only, I chose to replace low also while I was in there for a extra $109.68

23691-HL6-A00 reverse 25 tooth gear $82.84
23701-HL6-A00 reverse 16/22 tooth gear $72.80
21206-HL4-003 gasket motor-subtrans $10.82
21205-HL4-003 subtrans gasket $16.65
91201-HL4-003 output shaft seals 2 needed $17.00 each
91361-HL4-003 output shaft Orings 2 needed $2.36
91201-427-003 shifter seal $3.99


I chose to replace the shift collar that engages reverse the opposite side of it engages low so I replaced low gear also.
23751-HL4-000 shifter Low/Reverse $55.02
23650-HL4-000 Low gear $109.68

 

[JTW]

So when you say you replaced low... you mean you reduced the overall low gear of the machine? By how much? I guess what I’m getting at is, is this a significant enough option vs an IGR?

 

[Plumber32]

Yes tell us more!

 

[Hondasxs]

So when you say you replaced low... you mean you reduced the overall low gear of the machine? By how much? I guess what I’m getting at is, is this a significant enough option vs an IGR?

No. Its only minor. IRG is a larger increase in reduction.

Now we want to know.... do you notice a difference?

 

[GPR1500SC]

No I replaced it with a new stock gear.
So I don't tear it out later like some of the Talon guys are the edges of the gear where the shift collar engages it where a little worn not bad, but enough to consider it proventive maintenance.

 

[JTW]

No. Its only minor. IRG is a larger increase in reduction.

Now we want to know.... do you notice a difference?

Yeah.. I’m just curious if we couldn’t have an even lower gear cut to replace it.

 

[JTW]

No I replaced it with a new stock gear.
So I don't tear it out later like some of the Talon guys are the edges of the gear where the shift collar engages it where a little worn not bad but enough to consider it proventive maintenance.

Got ya... haven’t heard that on the talons.

 

[GPR1500SC]

No. Its only minor. IRG is a larger increase in reduction.

Now we want to know.... do you notice a difference?

Correct It lowers reverse only.
I didn't expect the retention ring to be trashed so it will NOT go together until I get more parts.
I rode in Zmorris88's Pioneer with it done and it is noticable but not night and day difference he was on stock tires so can't wait to try it with my 29's 😀

 

[GPR1500SC]

Got ya... haven’t heard that on the talons.

Thats why they are making new shift gates for the Talon they don't get them shifted in completely and trash the gear and collar like the attached picture.

 

[CID]

Thats why they are making new shift gates for the Talon they don't get them shifted in completely and trash the gear and collar like the attached picture.

View attachment 200502

Are these known Talon gears or just an example of shift dog damage? As widely spaced as the dogs are, I'm surprised the Talon is having so much trouble, says a Talon owner with no problems, yet. Your photo or internet? - I like to give photo credit when pirating pics. 😎

Tagging @Lil_Steve for his edification.

 

[JTW]

Thats why they are making new shift gates for the Talon they don't get them shifted in completely and trash the gear and collar like the attached picture.

View attachment 200502

Ahhh, got ya.

 

[GPR1500SC]

Are these known Talon gears or just an example of shift dog damage? As widely spaced as the dogs are, I'm surprised the Talon is having so much trouble, says a Talon owner with no problems, yet. Your photo or internet? - I like to give photo credit when pirating pics. 😎

Tagging @Lil_Steve for his edification.

The photo is of my 2016 Pioneer's reverse gear.
When you put your Talon into low and it grinds , the gears will soon look like my reverse gear.
I do believe its been on the forum where low has been taken out from grinding it, that is why they are making all the different shift gates so they will engage completely.

 

[CID]

The photo is of my 2016 Pioneer's reverse gear.
When you put your Talon into low and it grinds , the gears will soon look like my reverse gear.
I do believe its been on the forum where low has been taken out from grinding it, that is why they are making all the different shift gates so they will engage completely.

Yes, you have seen it here and why I'm 'tuned in' to damaged shift dogs. I'm sure the Talon and Pioneer are similar. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[GPR1500SC]

Update lower Reverse is great!!!
With 29 inch Big Horn 3.0's on my Pioneer still goes slower then a stock one with 27 inch tires on, if you are running 30 inch tires I would put it on the short list of modds.
I would say it's about right but am going to let it shift into 2nd in reverse if I am about stuck and need to sling some mud.

 

[P1K5Dave]

I finally got around to this mod after reverse broke I found the retainer on the bottom with most of its balls ☹

Here is a complete parts list you will need if you do reverse only, I chose to replace low also while I was in there for a extra $109.68

23691-HL6-A00 reverse 25 tooth gear $82.84
23701-HL6-A00 reverse 16/22 tooth gear $72.80
21206-HL4-003 gasket motor-subtrans $10.82
21205-HL4-003 subtrans gasket $16.65
91201-HL4-003 output shaft seals 2 needed $17.00 each
91361-HL4-003 output shaft Orings 2 needed $2.36
91201-HL4-003 shifter seal $3.99


I chose to replace the shift collar that engages reverse the opposite side of it engages low so I replaced low gear also.
23751-HL4-000 shifter Low/Reverse $55.02
23650-HL4-000 Low gear $109.68

GPR -

Thanks for providing this list!

I see a few inconsistencies in here that I'm hoping you can check on for me:

91201-HL4-003 is listed twice, once as a pair of output shaft seals, and once as a single shifter seal. But the price is very different for the same part number, so I'm trying to determine if it's the correct part number for both places.

91361-HL4-003 does not come up in a parts search. I think it may have been changed to 91361-HL4-A01. Is that the one?

Also, was that broken retainer part of one of the seals? I don't see a part number for it specifically.

 

[GPR1500SC]

GPR -

Thanks for providing this list!

I see a few inconsistencies in here that I'm hoping you can check on for me:

91201-HL4-003 is listed twice, once as a pair of output shaft seals, and once as a single shifter seal. But the price is very different for the same part number, so I'm trying to determine if it's the correct part number for both places.

91361-HL4-003 does not come up in a parts search. I think it may have been changed to 91361-HL4-A01. Is that the one?

Also, was that broken retainer part of one of the seals? I don't see a part number for it specifically.

Sorry about the typo 😞
I edited the first post
The correct numbers are
Out put shaft seals 91201-HL4-003
Shifter shaft seal. 91201-427-003
I didn't list a part number for the retaining ring as I figured it was a fluke and nobody will need it for there machine on a simple reverse change.

 

[SuperMidget]

alright now the question everybody wants to have answered, average shade tree handy man scale of 1 to 10 difficulty of the job?

 

[russknight]

I would like a higher 6th. Overdrive would be even better. Any ideas?

 

[Hondoman]

For anyone considering this mod, parts availability has been limited. I ordered everything from my local honda dealer on June 5 to replace low gear (worn dogs) and upgrade reverse to the talon gear while I have it apart. Six weeks later I'm still waiting on part # 23701-HL6-A00. It is scheduled to arrive in California on 7/28, then has to ship to my dealer...

I received part#23691-HL6-A00 today. Everything else came in around two weeks after ordering.

 

[danmcph]

How much were the parts?

How hard is it for. shade tree mechanic?