P700 NO POWER DURING ACCELERATION

[Neohio]

@DG Rider, never personally being in the 700 engine, couldn't a tech use a dial indicator on the cam lobe to measure lift and compare to service manual spec? If it is indeed posted in the manual?
I think that would be my first step on Thursday when the replacement cam arrives. Set up an indicator to measure lift on the new cam, compare to installed cam. I think I would still do a compression test before then to check the health of the engine.

 

[Admin]

 

[DG Rider]

@DG Rider, never personally being in the 700 engine, couldn't a tech use a dial indicator on the cam lobe to measure lift and compare to service manual spec? If it is indeed posted in the manual?
I think that would be my first step on Thursday when the replacement cam arrives. Set up an indicator to measure lift on the new cam, compare to installed cam. I think I would still do a compression test before then to check the health of the engine.

If I recall, the pushrod side is covered. May be able to do a bit of disassembly and get to them. Could also check at the valve end if the rocker arm ratio is listed.
If the machine is that bad, I'm guessing a visual confirmation will do it, but somebody has to have the desire to find out what is wrong, and that dealer seems to lack this.

 

[hondabob]

I didn't read through this power problem but Make sure the spark is ok. Under load the firing voltage must go way up. You could have a bad spark plug cap or ignition coil. At idle you should be able to get the spark to jump at least a 1/4" gap and you can compare with another one. Bad cams will go bad slowly and the valve clearance will be way off. I have had two bad spark plug caps unscrew so the clip on fitting has unscrewed from the cap. The ball and spring can fall out. It will still run perfect and both of mine had the problem at 5,000 to 6,000 miles. Watching the fuel pressure under load should stay at near 40 to 50 PSI and I'm guessing at the number but it will be close and if its 50 at idle it should be 50 under load. You may be able to hold the brakes and load the torque converter to do the test in the shop. The fuel pump or fuel filter may be bad. Good luck.

 

[HondaTech]

Camshafts are easy to diagnose without any special tools once you've done this for awhile. The unit will not rev up properly in neutral and will seem to hit a rev limiter super early. I can tell by ear now.

 

[arl242]

I have many qustions:
1- Is your repair completed?
2- Did they replace the camshaft?
3- Did they respect the guarantee?
4- How much did your repair cost?

They are currently working on the repair. I don't understand why it takes Honda so long to get parts to their dealers. Parts were going to take 5 days to have in hand. They are replacing the camshaft. They initially balked at the guarantee but another person at the shop called their territory rep and said they would honor PART of it. The initial estimate was roughly $900. I will update once it is all finalized.

 

[HondaTech]

I

They are currently working on the repair. I don't understand why it takes Honda so long to get parts to their dealers. Parts were going to take 5 days to have in hand. They are replacing the camshaft. They initially balked at the guarantee but another person at the shop called their territory rep and said they would honor PART of it. The initial estimate was roughly $900. I will update once it is all finalized.

It might have to do with being in Canada?
Our parts are at the most 2 days out.

 

[Davidgaud]

Camshafts are easy to diagnose without any special tools once you've done this for awhile. The unit will not rev up properly in neutral and will seem to hit a rev limiter super early. I can tell by ear now.

What do you mean by: SURPRISE ITS ANOTHER RECALL !! Is there a Honda recall for the cam trouble?

 

[HondaTech]

What do you mean by: SURPRISE ITS ANOTHER RECALL !! Is there a Honda recall for the cam trouble?

It's just my signature poking fun at the 1000.

 

[DG Rider]

It's just my signature poking fun at the 1000.

Would it be fair to label the 1k the most problematic new Honda model intro since the 1gen V-4 and the "cam problems" that followed?

 

[HondaTech]

Would it be fair to label the 1k the most problematic new Honda model intro since the 1gen V-4 and the "cam problems" that followed?

I've only been around Hondas since 2008 so I can only speak for stuff since then. But the GL1800 had numerous issues when it first hit the scene back in 2001. Frame welds, cooling system, ecm, brakes, pulsers, switches, tire beads.

So the P1K has probably gotten the most recalls/updates on any model since then with 4. The 01-02 Goldwing has 7!

 

[swsebek]

There have been quite a few cams to go out in these 700s over the years. And there all not just the 2014s.

 

[motorman18]

Wonder how many recalls will come out when the talon hits dealer floors

 

[HondaTech]

There have been quite a few cams to go out in these 700s over the years. And there all not just the 2014s.

Its odd we use to see several 650, 680 and Big Reds with this problem. Haven't done 1 single Pioneer 700 and We had a couple over 6,000 miles at last count.

 

[HondaTech]

@DG Rider, never personally being in the 700 engine, couldn't a tech use a dial indicator on the cam lobe to measure lift and compare to service manual spec? If it is indeed posted in the manual?
I think that would be my first step on Thursday when the replacement cam arrives. Set up an indicator to measure lift on the new cam, compare to installed cam. I think I would still do a compression test before then to check the health of the engine.

If its bad enough to cause the issue OP is having the it'll be apparent when the cam is visible.

I don't think Honda publishes cam lift, they might have timing (BTDC, ATDC, etc.)

 

[arl242]

I


It might have to do with being in Canada?
Our parts are at the most 2 days out.

I


It might have to do with being in Canada?
Our parts are at the most 2 days out.

I'm not located in Canada . . .

 

[arl242]

They are currently working on the repair. I don't understand why it takes Honda so long to get parts to their dealers. Parts were going to take 5 days to have in hand. They are replacing the camshaft. They initially balked at the guarantee but another person at the shop called their territory rep and said they would honor PART of it. The initial estimate was roughly $900. I will update once it is all finalized.

Just got a call, it is ready to leave the shop. Honda ended up covering everything but $49 in misc. items. Very happy Honda stood behind their product.

 

[HondaTech]

I'm not located in Canada . . .

OP stated he was in Canada I was referencing him having to wait on parts.

 

[DG Rider]

Just got a call, it is ready to leave the shop. Honda ended up covering everything but $49 in misc. items. Very happy Honda stood behind their product.

So...it was the cam?

 

[Davidgaud]

I have just picked up my 700-4 from the dealership with a $ 1507 bill. (CAN Money).
The problem was the cam. One of the 2 lobes was worn. The follower cam was worn too.

The Honda representative said that this can happen when making frequent starts and stops without allowing the oil to rise. For my part, I do not do this kind of driving so I have no idea what would have caused this wear.

It is not normal to replace a cam after only 8100 km (5000 mi) and 582 hours of walking. I do not understand too that the loss of power happened suddenly and not gradually.
My Honda dealer in Canada told me he has never heard of pioneer 700 cam problems and that there is no callback so I had to pay the bill.
I picked up my pieces and took some photos.
I'm looking for how to put my photos on the thread.

 

[Davidgaud]

IMG_1917

• Davidgaud
• Oct 22, 2018

Follower cam Pioneer 700-4, 2014

IMG_1916

• Davidgaud
• Oct 22, 2018

Cam Pioneer 700-4, 2014

IMG_1914

• Davidgaud
• Oct 22, 2018

Cam Pioneer 700-4, 2014