P700 NO POWER DURING ACCELERATION

[DG Rider]

I believe the outer surface of the cam is hardened. Once that layer of hardened material gets worn through, the softer material underneath goes relatively quickly. This could explain the relatively quick transition from normal to "loss of power". Replacing the follower (or lifter) is standard procedure even if it looks fine, as it always wears to the cam lobe.

I agree that this is a sore spot on an otherwise stellar engine from a durability standpoint. There seems to be no absolute agreement on why it happens, but @Farmer was told the same thing, if i remember.

 

[Admin]

 

[Farmer]

It does happen quickly. I was spraying fence posts (starting and stopping with idling) when mine (2014) went out at 675 or so miles. And it went all out. Both lobes were basically round. Honda covered part of the repair after MANY phones calls. I call total B.S. on the fact that starting and stopping causes this. It's a farm machine, an oversized offroad golf cart. Of course it's going to have frequent starts and stops. I mean other than @hondabob, who puts highway miles on an offroad machine? It blows my mind that it's still happening on 2016 models. I guess it's either bad cams or bad oiling in the particular machine. Maybe an oil journal has casting left in it or something.

I swear it affected my torque converter also. There seems to be a longer pause between the gas peddle and actual movement now.

I'll never forget when the salesman asked me if I bought a warranty with it. I said... F*** NO, I BOUGHT A HONDA SO THAT I WOULDN'T NEED A WARRANTY!!! A freaking cam at 675 miles???? give me a break!

I've said this many times on here....I'm over 900 miles now and I worry about this new cam every time I start the machine up. Every single time.

 

[DG Rider]

It does happen quickly. I was spraying fence posts (starting and stopping with idling) when mine (2014) went out at 675 or so miles. And it went all out. Both lobes were basically round. Honda covered part of the repair after MANY phones calls. I call total B.S. on the fact that starting and stopping causes this. It's a farm machine, an oversized offroad golf cart. Of course it's going to have frequent starts and stops. I mean other than @hondabob, who puts highway miles on an offroad machine? It blows my mind that it's still happening on 2016 models. I guess it's either bad cams or bad oiling in the particular machine. Maybe an oil journal has casting left in it or something.

I swear it affected my torque converter also. There seems to be a longer pause between the gas peddle and actual movement now.

I'll never forget when the salesman asked me if I bought a warranty with it. I said... F*** NO, I BOUGHT A HONDA SO THAT I WOULDN'T NEED A WARRANTY!!! A freaking cam at 675 miles???? give me a break!

I've said this many times on here....I'm over 900 miles now and I worry about this new cam every time I start the machine up. Every single time.

Always wanted to ask you to elaborate on this. So you were cutting the machine off at each stop, or just letting it idle?

Maybe @HondaTech can chime in here, but the cam sits in what looks like a tiny tub that would always have oil puddled in it under normal conditions. Dry starts seem unlikely unless you're laying on your side.

What's in the Shop: Rincon 680

 

[Farmer]

Always wanted to ask you to elaborate on this. So you were cutting the machine off at each stop, or just letting it idle?

Maybe @HondaTech can chime in here, but the cam sits in what looks like a tiny tub that would always have oil puddled in it under normal conditions. Dry starts seem unlikely unless you're laying on your side.

What's in the Shop: Rincon 680

No it was running. The posts are about 12 feet apart. Some stopping and starting and some driveby sprays lol. But always running.

I mean if you think about my golf cart comparison even those actually do start and stop the engine. That technology has been around what? 40 years or so? It's weird for Honda's standard but a small Honda engine and short trip? Give me a break.

 

[Davidgaud]

No it was running. The posts are about 12 feet apart. Some stopping and starting and some driveby sprays lol. But always running.

I mean if you think about my golf cart comparison even those actually do start and stop the engine. That technology has been around what? 40 years or so? It's weird for Honda's standard but a small Honda engine and short trip? Give me a break.

I'm starting to think of a bad design of the engine lubrication system.
@Farmer's engine was still running when he was working at his fence.
Honda technical support here in Quebec said that the cam problem could occur when the engine was stopped between frequent start-ups and stops, as the oil did not have time to climb and lubricate well.
This is not the case with @Farmer. This is not my case too.

It made me think that during the winter, I do snow removal with my Pioneer with a 72 "shovel installed forward. I therefore make frequent departures and stops. I go to the neutral point and then move back and forth. Again, the engine is still running.
If you can't do this work with a Honda 700 not to break the cam, there is a bad design problem. I did not buy a Honda for just walking on trails.
Honda has always relied on the robustness of its vehicles for work and leisure. It does not seem to be true for work anymore

 

[Farmer]

I try to keep it all in perspective, or just blame my bad luck.

There's literally thousands of these things running around the earth without any problems.
I've had stuff like this happen to me with other equipment. I remember having an F150 with a noisy engine. After weeks of fighting with "technicians" they discovered my f150 with 26,000 miles had piston slap like many others and needed a new engine. Guess what...the new engine wasn't any better. Sh*t happens I guess.

If Honda doesn't want to admit this one and offer a solution then fine. Someday I'll trade it in or sell it to some poor unfortunate soul who will end up with a bad taste in his mouth also.

I learned a little lesson in business training a few years back and I think it holds true. A happy customer seldom tells anyone or few about their experience. A mad customer will tell EVERYONE!

But when you're as big as let's say Polaris... you get by just fine anyway.
Hell last time I checked Ford was doing quite alright and Honestly I have two of them here at the farm becuase Chevy and Dodge all have issues also.

 

[Bobby_McIntire]

Thought I would add my experience. Looks like I have the exact issue as DavidGaud. Here are my photo. My Cam Follower looks identical to the picture above. My Honda is a 2014 purchased new and just started having the issue. I feel like this is a faulty part or someone at Honda tightened the valves too tight.

 

[Farmer]

... faulty part or someone at Honda tightened the valves too tight.View attachment 93841

Interesting theory about the valves being too tight. I don't remember hearing that one. I do remember hearing of over tightened bolts thru out the early machines. There's a few of us that would like to see Honda publicly address this camshaft issue. My biggest problem with it all as the lack of reassurance that it won't happen with the replacement 2015 cam. I mean we had a 2016 owner surface with the same problem on a low miles machine. Somebody said that Honda is trying to get back to better quality control with the new Talon coming out. Hopefully the Pioneer factory picks up on that. I know one thing....that Yamaha Wolverine X2 has caught my eye.

But hey..... Welcome to the forum! It's a great and fair place with awesome members and it's not owned and run by robots.

 

[Bobby_McIntire]

Interesting theory about the valves being too tight. I don't remember hearing that one. I do remember hearing of over tightened bolts thru out the early machines. There's a few of us that would like to see Honda publicly address this camshaft issue. My biggest problem with it all as the lack of reassurance that it won't happen with the replacement 2015 cam. I mean we had a 2016 owner surface with the same problem on a low miles machine. Somebody said that Honda is trying to get back to better quality control with the new Talon coming out. Hopefully the Pioneer factory picks up on that. I know one thing....that Yamaha Wolverine X2 has caught my eye.

But hey..... Welcome to the forum! It's a great and fair place with awesome members and it's not owned and run by robots.

Farmer, Thanks for the reply. Have you had to replace your camshaft on your Pioneer? What did you local dealer say or did you contact anybody. I feel like I've done everything right around maintenance and care for this not to happen. I don't ride the Pioneer hard, mostly around my 5 acres at low speeds. This could have been an issue for some time but I rarely open it up at full speed. I'm going to grip at my dealership where I purchased it and let them know I'm not happy. I'm sure nothing with come of it.

 

[tjoreo]

Thought I would add my experience. Looks like I have the exact issue as DavidGaud. Here are my photo. My Cam Follower looks identical to the picture above. My Honda is a 2014 purchased new and just started having the issue. I feel like this is a faulty part or someone at Honda tightened the valves too tight.View attachment 93841

How many miles are you showing on your rig when this happened? I've got about 4500 on my '15 and it seems to be going like the day I bought it.

 

[Bobby_McIntire]

How many miles are you showing on your rig when this happened? I've got about 4500 on my '15 and it seems to be going like the day I bought it.

I have around 2000 miles on mine. A lot of the riding in at low speeds around our 5 acres.

 

[Farmer]

Farmer, Thanks for the reply. Have you had to replace your camshaft on your Pioneer? What did you local dealer say or did you contact anybody. I feel like I've done everything right around maintenance and care for this not to happen. I don't ride the Pioneer hard, mostly around my 5 acres at low speeds. This could have been an issue for some time but I rarely open it up at full speed. I'm going to grip at my dealership where I purchased it and let them know I'm not happy. I'm sure nothing with come of it.

Yes. Same as you, but with low miles like many others. Under 700 miles. Small farm with lots of start and stop riding. Rarely does it see 30mph or even 20mph. If you read through the beginning of this thread or do a search of the forum you'll easily find that the common problem seems to be "golf cart" type use vs. long highway or trail type riding.

 

[mole]

No power during acceleration
I bought a new Pioneer SXS700-4 in 2014 and I have a first major problem in 4 years.
I have no more power when I push the accelerator. If I go downhill, the transmissions will be able to change gears by releasing the accelerator but if I'm on a board or uphill, I have no power. The engine does not stop, it starts very well and runs very well to the idle.

I checked my air filter, my spark arrestor, replaced the sparkplug and the problem is still there.
My pioneer is at the Honda dealer in Quebec, Canada for 3 weeks and they have not yet found the trouble. the mechanic adjusted the valves. I asked to check the muffler following exchanges on your forum as there had been power loss issues but everything is OK with my muffler.

There, he is waiting for the delivery of a special tool to be able to remove the gas pump from the tank and check the gas filter. The tool does not appear to be available in Canada and will take 2 weeks for delivery.
I'm afraid the trouble is not at the gas pump or the gas filter.
Do you have any ideas because I do not have any more,
(Excuse my english, I speak french and use Google traductor to write you my problem)

realize this is old post but did you ever find fix for problem. i'm having exact same problem on 2016 700 with 675 miles on it

 

[mole]

realize this is old post but did you ever find fix for problem. i'm having exact same problem on 2016 700 with 675 miles on it

mine ended up being camshaft.repair was $708.00.battling with honda now,hoping for them to step up & pay at least some of bill .after hearing how many owners are having this problem,there should be a recall.hard to refer to Hondas as "bullet-proof"with these kind of issues

 

[Devon]

Im currently having almost the same problem bike is having problems starting up will turn over fine just wont fire. Changed plugs all fluids checked and blew out wire connections,and even bought new battery. When starting you can here fuel pump and smell fuel. Once running bike will back fire bad and will limp if you go to drive it. If you put it in Neutral then rev it up and then stick it back in drive it will go fine but once you reach about 25 or 30 miles per hour it will backfire or even completely die And also if you hit any water or have water touch moter the bike will die.
Am currently lost and dont know what else to do.

 

[Farmer]

Im currently having almost the same problem bike is having problems starting up will turn over fine just wont fire. Changed plugs all fluids checked and blew out wire connections,and even bought new battery. When starting you can here fuel pump and smell fuel. Once running bike will back fire bad and will limp if you go to drive it. If you put it in Neutral then rev it up and then stick it back in drive it will go fine but once you reach about 25 or 30 miles per hour it will backfire or even completely die And also if you hit any water or have water touch moter the bike will die.
Am currently lost and dont know what else to do.

What you are describing is quite different than my cam symptoms. Mine always started and ran fine. Once the cam went it went fast. I mean like within an hour or two of use. It showed a lack of power one morning after spraying fence posts the day before. By the time I moved it from my shed to the garage and called a couple dealers it barely had enough power to go up the trailer ramps. No backfires or hard starting. Just a sudden lack of power. Maybe you've driven your's a bit more than I did when I noticed it causing worse conditions?