P1000 Oil changing kits

[highpocket74]

That’s balony! I’ve run synthetic in everything. As long as it’s wet clutch compatible it’s fine. All dealers say the same thing.

I’ve run in Honda atvs and motorcycles with no problems.

 

[Admin]

 

[bumperm]

There's lots of info on this forum. Part of what he says is true, like many motorcycles, the P1000 has a "wet" clutch, actually two of them. That means they are lubricated with oil, engine oil. So the oil can't have friction modifiers as do many modern automotive oils. That doesn't mean you can't use a synthetic, though. Mobil makes their Mobil-1 4T which is perfectly compatible with the engine/trans.

The sub trans and differentials are not so much of an issue. Many are using synthetics there, especially multi-viscosity and somewhat heavier oil in the diffs.

 

[Smitty335]

That’s balony! I’ve run synthetic in everything. As long as it’s wet clutch compatible it’s fine. All dealers say the same thing.

I’ve run in Honda atvs and motorcycles with no problems.

Good to know. What does a synthetic kit cost for a P1, including diff oil?

 

[JACKAL]

So I talked to my service guy from the Local Honda dealership, he also happens to live down the street from me. He said that Honda strongly discourages the use of anything but their conventional motor oil and says absolutely no to synthetics due to the transmission I took his word for it and bought the Honda oil, but has anybody else heard any expounding data on this?

Going back 6 years on this discussion on the proper oil for the DCT. The Honda branded oil has a very low molybdenum content around 50ppm according to many oil tests. Many full synthetic oils have a molybdenum content of 200 ppm to as high as 800 ppm. The molybdenum can cause glazing of the friction plates in the dual clutch transmission ( or any wet clutch friction plates). That's why using only the Honda oil is strongly recommended.

 

[bumperm]

I think there's a little bit of, "Only buy our stuff!" mixed in and driving Honda's recommendation to use only Honda fluids. The engine oil used, absolutely positively should be compatible with wet clutches. So again, any reputable oil that is compatible with wet clutches, such as the Mobil-1 4T product mentioned above and elsewhere on the forum, is gonna be fine. Wet clutches have been around, especially in motorcycles, for well over 100 years. (I understand the engine for the P1000 is derived from Honda's Africa Twin motorcycle).

BTW, the dual clutch tranny has been around for a good while too, first production vehicle being the '61 Hillman Minx.

 

[TOGR]

Rocky Mountain will sell a complete filter kit with Tusk filters and oil (high quality no doubt) or OEM oil and/or OEM filters separately, if one prefers the Honda filters, which are of the highest quality. It is hard to know the quality of Amazon filters--why chance it? Rocky Mountain has very good pricing, ships fast, and if the total is over about $75, ships free.

Honda also has extremely high quality oils, including oil designed specifically for Honda motorcycles/SXS's with wet clutches. Moly is great, except for on clutches. Just can't go wrong with using Honda's non-moly oil. Sure, there are plenty of great oils out there, but again, why chance it? Team Honda absolutely does use the exact same Honda oil, and has won a lot of long, tough races in Baja with it.

Not sure if the washers for these 3 drain plugs qualify as "crush" washers, but they do not really crush when properly torqued. If re-used, best practice is probably to install them in the same direction as they were removed. The engine case side, which always seems to come off nice and smooth and lubricated goes back against the engine case, and the bolt side goes back against the bolt.

 

[Smitty335]

Rocky Mountain will sell a complete filter kit with Tusk filters and oil (high quality no doubt) or OEM oil and/or OEM filters separately, if one prefers the Honda filters, which are of the highest quality. It is hard to know the quality of Amazon filters--why chance it? Rocky Mountain has very good pricing, ships fast, and if the total is over about $75, ships free.

Honda also has extremely high quality oils, including oil designed specifically for Honda motorcycles/SXS's with wet clutches. Moly is great, except for on clutches. Just can't go wrong with using Honda's non-moly oil. Sure, there are plenty of great oils out there, but again, why chance it? Team Honda absolutely does use the exact same Honda oil, and has won a lot of long, tough races in Baja with it.

Not sure if the washers for these 3 drain plugs qualify as "crush" washers, but they do not really crush when properly torqued. If re-used, best practice is probably to install them in the same direction as they were removed. The engine case side, which always seems to come off nice and smooth and lubricated goes back against the engine case, and the bolt side goes back against the bolt.

First Welcome to the Club! How many oil changes have you done? I think if you would have looked at the washers you removed, you would have seen they crushed. I have got into a tight and reused them but I don't feel comfortable about it. It's your buggy, do it your way and I'll do it my way, $ 2.00?????

 

[highpocket74]

I had a 99 400ex that ran strictly on Amsoil for 11 years and never changed the clutch pack.
My father-in-law ran Amsoil in his Goldwings for 100,000 miles and never changed clutch packs. I'm confident it's safe for wet clutches.

 

[trigger]

FWIW, first oil change I went with standard Honda oil. Second change I started using Royal Purple Max Cycle and used that for a few. Last yr I couldn't find any Max Cycle so I went with the Honda full synthetic. It actually quieted the machine down more and seemed to run even smoother. Maybe placebo but regardless, Honda full synth is all I use now. Been running synth in the diffs since the first service.

 

[TOGR]

Hi Smitty335,

On this Honda, two times. On all my Honda's (I presently also own 6 Honda m/c's) over more than 50 years, including prepping race bikes, most with the same filters, oils and washers the Talon uses, an awful lot...

I NEVER said do not change the washer, but I know many folks do not...(if the washer actually does fail, at worst you probably have only a slow, noticeable leak). Again, I didn't even say whether I change them every time or not.

And thank you for the welcome. There are an awful lot of very engaged and knowledgeable folks here!

 

[CID]

Back in the good ole days, crush washers were indeed, crush washers. They were rolled metal and you could see the seam where the two edges came together - kinda like a round roll pin but not hardened steel. Their cross section was roundish, like a tiny, metal tire tube, when you tightened a bolt on them, they actually ‘crushed’ flat. The ‘crush washers’ Honda uses on the Talon are nothing more than flat aluminum washers IMO.

Given the worst thing that can happen if I reuse them (and I will), is a very small oil seepage. And since I find the thing impossible to keep clean anyway, Imma not going to worry myself about a potential, TINY, seepage.

Oh, and I reused the old style crush washers too, so sue me.

 

[bumperm]

Oh, and I reused the old style crush washers too, so sue me.

Please PM me your address for the process server . . . thanks!

Okay, I've reused a few too. The ones on aircraft engine spark plugs are solid copper, they work harden (as do the aluminum ones on our sxs). To anneal the copper ones, you hang them on a bit of SS safety wire and heat them to red with a propane torch, then dunk them in water. To anneal the aluminum ones, you heat them to 750 degrees and let them air cool. How to get 750F? I reckon there's a couple of ways to approximate that, they do sell markers or "crayon". Soot from an acetylene torch (with O2 off) on the distal side will "go away" at that approximate temp. I've heard black felt tip marker will burn off at about that temp too (though haven't tried that. Also, I've only annealed aluminum sheet (hard alloy) to allow it to bend more easily without risk of cracking etc.

The idea behind crush washers is to allow the soft (or rolled thin metal) to crush, bend or flow to seal surfaces that otherwise may not mate together to seal perfectly.

 

[TOGR]

Very interesting discussion.

Annealing copper, which is typically pretty pure is easy with a torch. For the stuff I have done, like hand-hammered doors, I just let it air dry though. Does not take much hammering to realize how quickly pure copper work hardens and becomes stiff. Anneal it and it is very malleable again.

Have never annealed aluminum but have seen it turn to junk rapidly if overheated. Plus, there are a lot of aluminum alloys and it is pretty hard to know what you have if you did not purchase the original bar or tube, etc. I would imagine that some alloys can not be annealed (just as some steels can not be heat treated). Some alloys are very soft and others are very hard, some bend/form easily, while others will just break.

When Honda came out with the first (?) production aluminum framed dirt bikes in the 90's there was a lot of discussion about work hardening and if frame flex would lead to work hardened induced stress and cracks. Luckily, Honda got it right with the alloys they chose and their manufacturing design (although the first CR's frames were overly stiff, which took away from their handling).

I'm not planning on changing my oil again in the near future, but it would be interesting if someone who does could mic the old washer (that was torqued to specs) and compare its thickness to a new one. Both sides of the washer ride on flat, smooth surfaces--the case on one side and the bolt with a full flange on the other. The washers do not seem overly soft to me, so I wonder how much they do actually distort.