P1000 P1000 broken engine mounting bolts

[RingMaster]

Has anyone had the unfortunate luck to have had the two driver side engine mounting bolts break off inside the engine case? I first thought the bolts had simply loosened and fell out. But when the mud I THOUGHT was in the hole scratched shiny I realized the bad news.

There's no room to drill a hole and use an extractor due to the frame being in the way. It appears that I may have to remove the entire engine. Did anyone figure out a way to get at those two suckers without removing the engine?

I've gotten 14k wonderful miles out of this great 2016 machine. I've done all the repairs myself . . . up until now.

Thanks for any help!
RingMaster
A.k.a. Chris

 

[Neohio]

Sorry to hear about this.
Can you share some pictures? We might be able to come up with some solutions that you may not think of.

 

[Smitty335]

Has anyone had the unfortunate luck to have had the two driver side engine mounting bolts break off inside the engine case? I first thought the bolts had simply loosened and fell out. But when the mud I THOUGHT was in the hole scratched shiny I realized the bad news.

There's no room to drill a hole and use an extractor due to the frame being in the way. It appears that I may have to remove the entire engine. Did anyone figure out a way to get at those two suckers without removing the engine?

I've gotten 14k wonderful miles out of this great 2016 machine. I've done all the repairs myself . . . up until now.

Thanks for any help!
RingMaster
A.k.a. Chris

Did you pull a Smitty?

 

[GPR1500SC]

MTEX Racing Products — MTEX WELDING & FABRICATION

www.mtexwelding.com

Here is a link to a Talon repair kit it will not fit your Pioneer.
But you can look at it and get a idea how to fabricate your own to fit your Pioneer.

 

[TripleB]

Has anyone had the unfortunate luck to have had the two driver side engine mounting bolts break off inside the engine case? I first thought the bolts had simply loosened and fell out. But when the mud I THOUGHT was in the hole scratched shiny I realized the bad news.

There's no room to drill a hole and use an extractor due to the frame being in the way. It appears that I may have to remove the entire engine. Did anyone figure out a way to get at those two suckers without removing the engine?

I've gotten 14k wonderful miles out of this great 2016 machine. I've done all the repairs myself . . . up until now.

Thanks for any help!
RingMaster
A.k.a. Chris

@joeymt33 @snuffnwhisky @ohanacreek

 

[Jerryg]

It's a bit weird that it waited so long to happen.

I would guess something caused it to happen.

And JAH.

 

[bumperm]

Do a quick search on removing broken studs bolts with a stick welder.

They make a special stick that the flux protects the bolt hole threads in an engine or tranny case. You basically hold a nut over the hole and then strike and arc within the bolt hole and let the weld puddle build up even with the outer edge of the nut. When it cools, you use a wrench on the nut to unscrew the broken off bolt or stud.

This has saved many an engine removal for a broken exhaust manifold stud I bet!

 

[joeymt33]

I’ve had to fix a couple pioneers like this now and the best way I found is holding a nut against the engine case and filling the nut full of Weld so that it welds its self to the stud and then take it off with a socket or a wrench while it’s still hot.

After that, by some grade 12.9 socket head, studs and use those instead of the factory bolts. I can go down to the shop and check later but I’m pretty sure it’s metric 10 with a 1.25 thread pitch.

 

[Vikes79]

Do a quick search on removing broken studs bolts with a stick welder.

They make a special stick that the flux protects the bolt hole threads in an engine or tranny case. You basically hold a nut over the hole and then strike and arc within the bolt hole and let the weld puddle build up even with the outer edge of the nut. When it cools, you use a wrench on the nut to unscrew the broken off bolt or stud.

This has saved many an engine removal for a broken exhaust manifold stud I bet!

 

[Remington]

@RingMaster
@joeymt33 knows this issue well and will take care of you here.

Post some pics of this broken bolt tho. Deff worth seeing

 

[RingMaster]

Sorry to hear about this.
Can you share some pictures? We might be able to come up with some solutions that you may not think of.

It's the bolts pointed as #1 here:

I have already removed the bracket in these photos

This is the rear most bolt hole

The first ont is the same. I couldn't get a good pic of it.

 

[RingMaster]

Did you pull a Smitty?

I don't know when I did it, but apparently I did!

 

[RingMaster]

MTEX Racing Products — MTEX WELDING & FABRICATION

www.mtexwelding.com

Here is a link to a Talon repair kit it will not fit your Pioneer.
But you can look at it and get a idea how to fabricate your own to fit your Pioneer.

Thanks GPR1500SC. I'm not sure I hav to enough talent or tools to build something that neice. I keep it in mind though.

 

[RingMaster]

Do a quick search on removing broken studs bolts with a stick welder.

They make a special stick that the flux protects the bolt hole threads in an engine or tranny case. You basically hold a nut over the hole and then strike and arc within the bolt hole and let the weld puddle build up even with the outer edge of the nut. When it cools, you use a wrench on the nut to unscrew the broken off bolt or stud.

This has saved many an engine removal for a broken exhaust manifold stud I bet!

That sounds like a great idea. However it requires a stick welder and the skill to use it. I have neither. Maybe I'll try to find somebody else that can do that for me thanks for the pointer.

 

[joeymt33]

This is a slow process it’s not that you broke it with only doing one thing. The way that these bolts are rocked back-and-forth, they eventually fatigue and fail.

Yours looks like a prime candidate to hold a nut up there and you can use something as simple as a flux core welder.

 

[joeymt33]

I wish I had a better picture of the motor mounts that I was making long before Hess, or any of these other companies were making them for the talons and other vehicles. I think so far I’ve put one on Adams, Plumber’s and triple B and another friend’s vehicle as well.





You can see the grade 12.9 socket head bolts here. And what’s not pictured very well, is the extra metal, I welded to the stock mount to take it up high enough to use some different bolt hole locations.

Maybe #Adam490 or #plumber32 has some pictures of theirs. We built and installed theirs before the bolts broke as a preventative measure.

 

[joeymt33]

Sometimes I like to save those broken off bolts and set them on my desk. One of these is actually the motor mount bolt.

 

[joeymt33]

Has anyone had the unfortunate luck to have had the two driver side engine mounting bolts break off inside the engine case? I first thought the bolts had simply loosened and fell out. But when the mud I THOUGHT was in the hole scratched shiny I realized the bad news.

There's no room to drill a hole and use an extractor due to the frame being in the way. It appears that I may have to remove the entire engine. Did anyone figure out a way to get at those two suckers without removing the engine?

I've gotten 14k wonderful miles out of this great 2016 machine. I've done all the repairs myself . . . up until now.

Thanks for any help!
RingMaster
A.k.a. Chris

Do you have any reason to drive to North Alabama? If so, bring the Honda with you and I’ll get it fixed up.

If not, give me about a week and I’ll make another motor mount and mail it to you, but you’ll have to get the broken stud out yourself.

 

[joeymt33]

Whatever you do, do not try to use one of the damaged bolt extractors. After you drill out the bolt and use that tool, it will stretch the soft factory bolts and make it so tight. It will not come out. Ask me how I know……

 

[bumperm]

@joeymt33 Just a WAG (I haven't looked at the mounts in question. Do you think loose bolts, perhaps due to stretching, could be part of the failure mode? This might allow the motor to put additional stress on the fasteners? Would checking the bolt torque occasionally be a good idea? Or, absent the your reinforcement doubler, replacing the bolts with higher strength ones?

If you get the chance, please post a better picture of what you did. Thanks!